Scott,
I believe you make some good points in regards to the need for wider
support and better communication in regards to the Netview product line.  I
work for a very large global IBM/Tivoli customer and have been working with
Netview for years.  I understand that there is a lot of change occurring in
the Tivoli Product suite that is creating a lot of confusion in the
customer base.  As a large customer, I would like to see something modeled
after the OpenView forum evolve.  I am a member of the OpenView Forum,
which by the way Scott, is not officially supported by HP..the OpenView
OEM.   That organization is based on individual membership of product users
and those with interest with special membership allowed for HP employees
and not officially sanctioned nor sponsored by HP.  This model has proven
very effective.

So what I am saying is this,  yes there are some things Tivoli needs to do
better in regards to Netview, but I believe that the Netview user community
will be much better served if we users will unite to mutually support each
other, exchange experiences, share knowledge and expand beyond just the
core product to also support each other in regards to integration with 3rd
party vendor products.  A large group of active and well organized users
should have much more clout in shaping the direction of the product.

Those are just my thoughts on the subject........

Dave Kretzmer
Lead - Enterprise Network Management
Ahold Information Services

The above comments do not reflect official policies or positions of my
company.


                                                                                
            
                    "Barr, Scott"                                               
            
                    <Scott_Barr@csgsy       To:     <nv-l AT lists.tivoli DOT 
com>                 
                    stems.com>              cc:                                 
            
                                            Subject:     RE: [nv-l] Netview 7.1 
and Netview 
                    04/17/2002 01:32         v2.3 OS390                         
            
                    PM                                                          
            
                                                                                
            
                                                                                
            
                                                                                
            
                                                                                
            
                                                                                
            




Right. I have Tivoli employees responding and its *NOT* a supported forum?
Huh? Does this make sense to you?  How can it be unsupported when the
responses come from Tivoli employees? You speak on behalf of only yourself
but you are relying on the years of employment you have with Tivoli? I
don't get it. Everyone here is donating time, not just tivoli folks -
sometimes solutions to a question come from someone OTHER than Tivoli staff
too. Its not a volunteer "thing" for James. Its obvious to me that James is
responding out of frustration because there is nothing else he can do.

If you all think this is the way things should be and it's okay by you,
more power to you. But none of IBMs other product families are in this
condition and I'll call a spade a spade and this situation is messed up and
its not getting any better. This is a best of breed product in a
worst-of-breed support environment and NOT because the people don't care or
are incompetent but because the COMPANY refuses to step up.

Do I sound angry? Yes. I'm not angry because this isn't a supported Tivoli
forum.... I'm angry because those of you who work for the company refuse to
escalate these issues to your own management. I'm angry because settling
for mediocrity is the status quo now. Complacency is rampant. I may be
vocal but I am not alone in my opinion. Those of you who have the ear of
decision makers continue to throw up your hands "Its not a supported forum,
its not a supported forum" blah blah blah blah blah.

If I were an IBM/Tivoli representative, (and I have had my opportunities to
do so btw, but I would neither cut my hair or wear a tie) I would be
concerned. I'm not a person who cries wolf. I won't open up a conversation
without data to back it up. So if someone wants to question the validity of
my concerns, I will be happy to share specific examples. I expect
excellence. This is *NOT* excellence. Excellence would be a support forum
with teeth, a user group with some influence, customers with some ability
to influece decision making. I'm done replying to this topic. Any of you
who wish to share questions or comments about NetView can email me
directly.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brett Coley [mailto:bcoley AT us.ibm DOT com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:18 AM
To: nv-l AT lists.tivoli DOT com
Subject: RE: [nv-l] Netview 7.1 and Netview v2.3 OS390


> Not a Tivoli supported forum? Why not? Give me a good reason why this
should not be an official forum? You have internal support > > staff from
Tivoli maintaining the mailing list! You have Tivoli employees replying to
forum questions.

Scott, actually, no.   No one "has us" doing this -- it is a volunteer
thing only.


Regards,
Brett


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: nv-l-unsubscribe AT lists.tivoli DOT com
For additional commands, e-mail: nv-l-help AT lists.tivoli DOT com

*NOTE*
This is not an Offical Tivoli Support forum. If you need immediate
assistance from Tivoli please call the IBM Tivoli Software Group
help line at 1-800-TIVOLI8(848-6548)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: nv-l-unsubscribe AT lists.tivoli DOT com
For additional commands, e-mail: nv-l-help AT lists.tivoli DOT com

*NOTE*
This is not an Offical Tivoli Support forum. If you need immediate
assistance from Tivoli please call the IBM Tivoli Software Group
help line at 1-800-TIVOLI8(848-6548)