License Pricing Insanity

I cant beleive that i'm going throught the same process at this moment. Our maintenance cost just double.. and we didnt add PVU last year!!! IBM is driving me crazy!!! Our management is starting to look at other alternative!!! I'm starting to build a case for defending TSM.. but with there insanly price of TSM and other alternative we use (Synchronous data replication from one site to the other of our critical application) The argument for defending TSM is getting shorter and shorter!

And to add to the others that say they have insanly low price with TSM.. This is an IBM tactics.. Sell the software really cheep have a low maintenance cost for 3 years... wait that all the data is backup with TSM after 3 years.. charge them a arm and a leg. And companies are have longer retention periods due to legal stuff... so they are stuck to pay the maintenance cause the migration of all the data from one software to the other will be insanly high!!

sorry i had to said this but i had to vent my frustration
 
Last edited:
I'm sure this has been asked previously, but does any know how the TSM client nodes works as far as licensing? For instance how many nodes can you backup before purchasing additional node licensing.
 
it's for each core CPU of every serveur that have BA/CLient,TDP or TSM Server you have installed.
EX: You have a DUAL QUADCORE X86 Server running Win2k3 with sql 2k5
This will cost you 400 PVU for your BA Client and 400 PVU for you TDP SQL agent.
2X4core x 50 PVU = 400 PVU.

For ESX Server. even if you have 50 VM. and your server got 4 QUAD CORES. You pay for 16 Cores. 4X4X50 = 800 PVU'S for 50 VM.S
 
THE_WIPET said:
it's for each core CPU of every serveur that have BA/CLient,TDP or TSM Server you have installed.
EX: You have a DUAL QUADCORE X86 Server running Win2k3 with sql 2k5
This will cost you 400 PVU for your BA Client and 400 PVU for you TDP SQL agent.
2X4core x 50 PVU = 400 PVU.

For ESX Server. even if you have 50 VM. and your server got 4 QUAD CORES. You pay for 16 Cores. 4X4X50 = 800 PVU'S for 50 VM.S
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info. I just got off the phone with a sales rep and they claim that is true what you are saying but with virtuals they determine the lesser of the two. If you have 50 virtuals running on 4 servers with 4 quad core, then you would only pay for the 50 virtuals and not the entire set of 4 servers cores.
 
well it's cheeper run 50 vm on ESX. It's base on physical core!
The ESX server will cost you 800 pvu. compare to 50 physical Server with 1 CORE each. 50X100PVU.

it's all detailed on the web site i send you!
 
Last edited:
My manager has just informed me that they're meeting our demands. I was already getting things lined up to build a giant VFS, probably on GFS, to extract the BA data back to files, and have oracle and mssql start backing up to files. I'm so glad, because I really want to play with v6.

I can't imagine we've got that much clout, though - sub-$100K client(we used to be a few$M/y, but this sort of stuff is getting 25 years of pure IBM replaced with HP). I think perhaps they're getting some attention from the FTC... get the client committed to a platform, until it's nearly impossible (potentially legally impossible) to switch platforms, and tighten the screws?

I'd like to think that the architects of that pricing strategy have been made scapegoats - fired, with "not eligible for rehire" responses to all HR calls.
 
THE_WIPET said:
And to add to the others that say they have insanly low price with TSM.. This is an IBM tactics.. Sell the software really cheep have a low maintenance cost for 3 years... wait that all the data is backup with TSM after 3 years.. charge them a arm and a leg. And companies are have longer retention periods due to legal stuff... so they are stuck to pay the maintenance cause the migration of all the data from one software to the other will be insanly high!!

sorry i had to said this but i had to vent my frustration
Click to expand...

I understand your fustration. I think everyone here has at least one engineer they work with who would rather Commvault, NetBU, or whatever.

Most of the TSM shops here in Vegas are also Iseries customers and have received TSM for FREE or pretty near free. I have 147TB stored across my TS3310 units and don't foresee migrating to anything else very soon.

Although I would have loved to move to AIX but that turned out to be as complex as it was costly.
 
Last edited:
I was mistaken. They met our numbers by essentially providing nothing. I have one year to find a new solution and migrate all our data. All other planned IBM purchases are canceled as well, to be re-architected to other platforms.

86TB used primary, 381 nodes, 3 types of TDP, backupsets...

IBM hasn't doubled the value of TSM. Did they expect to recoup the entire development cost of version 6 in a single year?

I guess it doesn't matter any more, to me.
 
The legacy data migration will be the biggest challenge you will be facing.
I too will be interested if any competing vendors have an existing migration strategy for your legacy data. Approximately how many tapes do you have and what is your retention policy?


n9hmg said:
I was mistaken. They met our numbers by essentially providing nothing. I have one year to find a new solution and migrate all our data. All other planned IBM purchases are canceled as well, to be re-architected to other platforms.

86TB used primary, 381 nodes, 3 types of TDP, backupsets...

IBM hasn't doubled the value of TSM. Did they expect to recoup the entire development cost of version 6 in a single year?

I guess it doesn't matter any more, to me.
Click to expand...
 
From a vendor presentation, i ask this question... they gave me quite a suprise look. But this is there answer. " It would be best to keep an TSM instance for longterme retention open. but if you are willing to pay.. we can help you with your data migration.
 
A Right Royal Rip Off

Why is a product like TSM be licensed on a per CPU core basis anyway (PVU's or whatever its still basically per CPU core). There is only one answer to this and its pure greed. IBM is one of the few none healthcare / none defense corporations still making a profit. We spend millions with them and get a paltry 20% off license and maint costs.

TSM is still the most widely accepted enterprise level backup product on the market and IBM once they lock you in will milk you for every penny they can. They force you to use there poorly thought out management tools, designed so badly it forces you to buy another server, and pay little or no attention to full time Admin input. I think they learned from the CA or the infomercial sales model.

What better way to confusticate the issue than to completely disassociate the licensing from anything even slightly relevant to backup. Its the same with all Tivoli Products why is TWS or TDM licensed on a per CPU core basis.

I have seen servers with literally hundreds of CPU's and only one or two gigs of Disk and conversely I have seen and am managing servers with 4 single core CPU's and multi terabyte DB's

Backup isn't about CPU power for example a typical single channel BA backup to TSM is probably only using 1 Core to actually move data while an 8 channel backup for a DB could easily be using 16 but still only 8 of them are used for TSM the other 8 by the DB. But if you have a 100Mb/s pipe it wont go any faster. And why should we pay extra for LANFREE / TSM for DB surely if TSM is licensed on a per CPU core based then we have already paid.

There is only one way this this will get fixed an that's by us, the TSM admins starting to look at other products. Not just comparing based on heresay but based on actual testing.

I for one have recently had real issues with the abyssmal quality of IBM products. Every one of the last 3 ML installs has been broken out of the box and required replacement or urgent patching within weeks if not days. But does IBM stand up and say oops, no, it goes on my year end review. They cant be bothered to support 5.3 and older client code unless of course you pay extra. The first time I used my BRAND NEW TS3500 the BRAND NEW latest code release installed by the CE's was broken and had to be replaced. I had backed up about 20GB to it.

IBM think we are locked in we need to prove them wrong. Competition encourages better products and better deals. While we accept we are locked in we have no leverage.
 
When we looked at moving from TSM on Windows 2003 to TSM on AIX upon the silent advise of IBM and a few CE's the real issue appeared that the data that was originally stored with Windows was unreadable by the new AIX system and would require a tape to tape migration strategy and of course "Professional Services" to the tune of 7K.

So I would really be interested to see how you could move to another system and maintain your legacy data without still mainataining your existing TSM system for at least the length of your longest retention period.

I understand your pain in this issue and sometimes really feel trapped in my TSM environment as well.

btw, why does TDP for SQL suck so bad?

And how do people re-run failed and missed backups without intervention?
My rep is telling me this is done with TWS, Oh my really another Tivoli product I will need to learn and admin?

Once I master all these products I will have no value in the "real world" any longer, Just like an Iseries developer.:p


THE_WIPET said:
From a vendor presentation, i ask this question... they gave me quite a suprise look. But this is there answer. " It would be best to keep an TSM instance for longterme retention open. but if you are willing to pay.. we can help you with your data migration.
Click to expand...
 
Can we open a petition on this site, I know there are some petition sites out on the web, or Perhaps we need to Open a new Top level thread.

Its definitely about time IBM started being forced to listen by sheer numbers because they clearly do not care very much about individual feedback.
 
We just switched 300+ nodes over to EMC's Avamar. I pay by the de-duped TB, and all of the clients (and TDP like products) are included in an unlimited amount. No longer do I have to worry about PVU and the headaches. To make things more fun we did it right before Passport Renewal, IBM lost $60,000 from us between losing some PO's and maintenence. Good riddance!
 
jliehr said:
We just switched 300+ nodes over to EMC's Avamar...
Click to expand...

My company is looking into EMC's Avamar as well. Seems very compentent (and excels in some areas) to TSM and a much better pricing model.
 
I'm months away from dropping TSM globally(many PB worth of backups) in favor of a combined EMC Avamar/Networker solution. IBM is simply too expensive anymore when compared to other products that can be forced to do what TSM can do.

Migration will take years and during that time, long-term data will simply expire.

Another IBM contract lost to the tune of millions globally.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Data Privacy Impact Assessment

Compliance Assurance in Every Byte: Discover the Impact of Our DPIA Services.

Sponsor ADSM.ORG

If you are reading this, so are your potential customer. Advertise at ADSM.ORG right now.

Navigation Menu

Forums
   IBM TSM
   EMC Backup and Recovery
   Symantec NetBackup  
   SAN  
   NAS
   Platforms / OS
Mailing List Archives
   ADSM-L
User Groups

NordVPN 3 Months FREE

Help Support ADSM.ORG and Get NordVPN with 64% Off and 3 Months FREE.

NordVPN with 64% off + 3 months FREE

Forum statistics

Threads
31,974
Messages
135,446
Members
21,952
Latest member
gatherpc
Back
Top