I was talking to some of our local EMC reps last week and I believe that
EMC have changed their licensing model for Avamar, and now licence on
the amount of disk that stores the de-duped data. They also now let you
build your own Avamar servers (on RedHat??), but instead of providing
end to end support like the turnkey solution they will only support the
software.
Mat.
-----Original Message-----
From: EMC NetWorker discussion [mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU] On
Behalf Of Peter Viertel
Sent: Tuesday, 6 November 2007 9:30 AM
To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
Subject: Re: [Networker] Data De-Duplication product info
Veritas also paid real money to buy DCT in 2005... That's where
puredisk came from, they're not giving it away either.
Today it's still a standalone install and licensed based on the total
size of your backend 'pools' ie the disk space required to store your
deduplicated data... They're rebranding it as netbackup any way they
can, and they have delivered some integrations already - eg there's a
way of streaming data from the backend pool via a media server to
standard netbackup storage... In theory they will deliver the ability
to backup using puredisk and to subesequently restore that data using
netbackup, but that doesn't excite me much - it's not going to make me
think about migrating to netbackup at least...
The Symantec sales people still haven't grasped that there's a way to
sell puredisk to NetWorker sites, and persist in making us all think you
have to buy netbackup to use it..
Anyway - purdisk or avamar, you have to buy or build an intel based
standalone system to host the storage pools - EMC want you to buy their
avamar appliance and will charge you for data under protection, which
isn't all that fair. Symantec want you to select and build your own
Suse linux compatible servers with their customised version of suse
called 'PDOS' - they charge you a flat price per TB for the size of the
disk on the PDOS boxes.
I'd love to use this type of technology - but it's a bit premature to
say who's going to win this Beta vs VHS style battle...
EMC made a good move by integrating avamar into the networker scheduler,
but the licensing model, and host hardware policy really suck.
Symantec have a good licensing model, and not a bad host hardware
policy, but their apparent roadmap for us networker guys is decidedly
dodgy.
Licensing models have a tendancy to change if they're wrong for the
market though...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EMC NetWorker discussion
> [mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU] On Behalf Of Stuart Whitby
> Sent: Tuesday, 6 November 2007 4:37 AM
> To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
> Subject: Re: [Networker] Data De-Duplication product info
>
> Processing power to utilise Avamar is up to the server
> administrators. Given the choice of spending cash on a dedup
> device vs spending it on extra processing power for a server,
> I'd generally go for power serverside.
>
> The info regarding PureDisk being included with NetBackup 6.5
> came direct from a Veritas (sorry - Symantec) sales
> presentation on NetBackup 6.5, so I'd guess that the
> information was correct. Given that EMC paid $165million for
> Avamar, who's to say that Symantec didn't just throw in
> PureDisk to push EMC into giving the technology away.
> Besides, it's gotta be better than native Centera
> performance, so they have a number of possible applications for it :)
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Curtis Preston [mailto:cpreston AT glasshouse DOT com]
> Sent: Mon 05/11/2007 04:34
> To: EMC NetWorker discussion; Stuart Whitby
> Subject: RE: [Networker] Data De-Duplication product info
>
>
>
> >Firstly, these will quickly be made redundant with Avamar integration
> with >NetWorker.
>
> Not so fast, hoss. ;) Those two categories of products are designed
> with completely different datasets in mind. Avamar (and its
> competitors) are designed primarily to back up remote office data, and
> the data of smaller data centers. You would never use it to back up,
> say, a multi-terabyte database. The bigger your servers, the
> more these
> products aren't going to keep up. Dedupe disk targets, on the other
> hand, are designed to take streams of data from your backup system and
> dedupe them at line speed, allowing you to use them to back up just
> about anything you're backing up today, while getting the benefits of
> dedupe.
>
> >I can't be sure, but I doubt that this will even be a licensed
> >feature, as Veritas already include this functionality for free with
> >NetBackup - of course, NetBackup is generally a bit more
> expensive than
>
> >NetWorker, so who knows for sure?
>
> TRUST ME. EMC didn't pay $165 million for Avamar to give it
> away. It's
> an extra-price feature, both in NetBackup & NetWorker.
> First, you need
> to buy an Avamar/Puredisk/Asigra server even if you already have a
> NetWorker/NetBackup/TSM server. Then you need to buy the client
> software and an appropriately-sized capacity-based license. I don't
> know who told you it was free here or with NetBackup, but they
> definitely are misinformed.
>
> >Secondly, you're adding a virtualisation layer between NetWorker and
> the >disk. Personally, I've never been particularly impressed with
> NetWorker's >disk handling, given that it still treats them as tape
> devices and given
>
> Check out my response in the "VTL or disk cabinet backup"
> thread on this
> topic. Summary: I agree with you for small environments, but not for
> large ones.
>
> >Also, though this issue will remain in any case with dedup, if one
> block on >disk is damaged, how many files is that likely to hit?
>
> A lot, which is why it should be RAID protected and replicated -- at a
> minimum. And/or you can store a copy on tape.
>
>
>
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