Networker

Re: [Networker] incompatibilities between different Networker versions

2003-01-07 09:17:23
Subject: Re: [Networker] incompatibilities between different Networker versions
From: Jim Lane <JLane AT TORONTOHYDRO DOT COM>
To: NETWORKER AT LISTMAIL.TEMPLE DOT EDU
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:15:00 -0500
Let's see if I can close this off on a more constructive note. after a
few
years of struggling with Networker I've come around to the view that
the
real problem with it is that it's biting off more than anybody should
be
expected to chew. it proposes to be one-stop shopping for backup,
anything, anywhere, any way you want it. its main competitors (TSM,
Veritas etc) take the same approach. to the decision-making "suits"
of this world this sounds irresistible, an enterprise approach. but
I'm
not at all sure that the abstract benefits of that nearly outweigh the
problems. all framework type products like this are good at what
they're
good at and not otherwise. I honestly think that if it was my decision

(which it wasn't) and knowing what I know now I'd go with a collection

of best-of-breed point solutions for each environment (I have a bit of

just about everything). to balance my earlier outburst I have to say
that for me Networker works quite well for UNIX, acceptably for NT and
abysmally for NetWare. as far as support goes of course it's a good
idea.
it wasn't my decision either to drop it or to start it up again. I just
have to
do the best I can with what they give me to work with.

Jim Lane
Sr. Technical Consultant
Network Services
Toronto Hydro
office: (416)-542-2820
cell: (416)-896-8576

>>> treiber AT HOTPOP DOT COM 07-Jan-03 8:48:21 AM >>>
On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:49:29 -0500, Jim Lane <JLane AT TORONTOHYDRO DOT COM>
wrote:

>At the risk of precipitating a flame war,
Quite a strong risk I'd say. Constructive comments and criticism are
much
more welcome on this list than emotional points of view.

> I couldn't agree more about the
>poor quality and design of Legato Networker. it has always struck me
>as a low-end PC grade product with delusions of grandeur.
Quite the opposite in fact. As you know, NetWorker's roots are in the
Unix
world, a world where TCP/IP and DNS have been second nature since way
back.
NetWorker was designed before Microsoft had even invented TCP/IP. (What
do
you mean they didn't?) Introducing NetWorker to Windows produced
infinitely
more ways of breaking the product as it was used in more varied
environments.

> it's design seems to be based on the assumption that everything else
> in the environment
> works perfectly all the time and when it doesn't it's somehow OK for
> Networker to just roll over and quit after printing an
incomprehensible
> message.
It's a network based product. For it to work properly, surely you have
to
have a working network. That includes name resolution, however you
choose to
do it. It's not OK for it to do what you said, however it's rare that
it
does that, and your opinion of what constitutes an incomprehensible
message
may not be the same as other peoples. Anyway, that's what Support is
for.
Occasionally a product as complex as this, by its very nature, is going
to
be used in some strange set of circumstances, but quite often someone
has
seen it before.

> having just gotten back on support after a 2-year hiatus I've
>now discovered, wonder of wonders, that my problem is fixed in the
>next release!
Perhaps Support would have been a good idea to help you with your
2-year old
version of the product. They could have told you that 6.0 is a bad
version
and that 6.0.1 and above fixes a particularly nasty media DB bug. If
you
chose not to pay for support why are you surprised not to know about
any
particular fix?

> in the meanwhile the workaround is to stop using DNS
>and put static hosts files on all 140+ clients! I'm not sure whether
>to laugh or cry.
Well I don't know your issue here, but I have never seen a case where
hosts
files were the only solution. Many sites with broken or badly
implemented
DNS systems see better results with hosts files, however the true
solution
would be to fix the DNS. This is not always possible in the short term,
but
in many cases the customer did not even know their DNS was broken
until
NetWorker showed up the problem.

 I wish I was lucky enough to be able to say that this is
>my last year using Networker, but that would involve somebody
>admitting they'd made a mistake. sigh.
That's if they have made a mistake. Sure there are competing products
(not
many in this class though) but each of them comes with its own
selection of
bugs and issues, perhaps different to the ones in NetWorker, but
equally
troublesome and annoying. NetWorker IS a mature product these days, and
the
problems with current versions are minor compared to some that have
gone in
the past. However, fixing bugs is an iterative process and you cannot
see
the benefit unless you install the versions containing the fixes. All
software products are like this.

--
Note: To sign off this list, send a "signoff networker" command via
email
to listserv AT listmail.temple DOT edu or visit the list's Web site at
http://listmail.temple.edu/archives/networker.html where you can
also view and post messages to the list.
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

--
Note: To sign off this list, send a "signoff networker" command via email
to listserv AT listmail.temple DOT edu or visit the list's Web site at
http://listmail.temple.edu/archives/networker.html where you can
also view and post messages to the list.
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=