"Package deal" ... I'm going to use that.  :)

You are correct.  Objects that are expired but not yet deleted won't be
visible and therefore can't be selected for restore.

The same concepts apply to normal backup files.  For example, the behavior
of NDMP backup versions is identical to that of adaptive subfile backup
versions.

Even in the general case, if you have a management class that will keep
versions for 30 days, and you backed up a file at 8am 30 days ago, then
that file is expired as of 8am today.  The file won't get deleted until the
next time inventory expiration runs.  In the meantime, the file will be
hidden from the client, such that you wouldn't be able to restore it.

Mark Haye (马克海), IBM TSM Server Development, mark.haye AT us.ibm DOT com,
8/321-4403, (520)799-4403, 0N6/9062-2, Tucson
Professional programmer.  Closed source.  Do not attempt.


"ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L AT vm.marist DOT edu> wrote on 02/22/2012
13:47:12:

> From: "Mueller, Ken" <KMueller AT MCARTA DOT COM>
> To: ADSM-L AT vm.marist DOT edu
> Date: 02/22/2012 13:59
> Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] What if (NDMP)
> Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L AT vm.marist DOT edu>
>
> This matches what I see in our environment - q nasbackup doesn't
> show the full backup that the differentials depend upon, once the
> full backup ages out.  We have successfully restored volumes using a
> recent differential with its older associated full backup so it does
> work.  However, your use of the word "expired" to describe the
> status of the full backup caught my eye because it implies that
> while we can restore full + differential, we can't restore the full
> by itself.  Is that indeed the case?  (Never tried it.)  It makes
> sense in terms of following the rules of retention, but its an
> interesting scenario where "I've got it, but I can't give it to you
> unless you buy the package deal!"
> -Ken
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU] On
> Behalf Of Mark Haye
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:27 PM
> To: ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
> Subject: Re: What if (NDMP)
>
>
> A full backup that has a dependent differential can be expired, but
> will not be deleted.  This means that a full backup that is beyond
> the retention criteria will not be visible, but will be available
> for restoring differentials.  As others have noted, fulls and
> differentials are managed by the same management class, so each will
> appear as just another version.
>
> In Wanda's example,
>
> > The question is, if retextra is 15 and retonly is 15, and you take one
> full NDMP backup followed by 20 diffs, does anything roll off?
> > How many fulls and diffs do you have left in the DB?
>
> The full is expired, but not deleted.  The first five differentials
> are expired and deleted. You will have 15 restorable backup
> versions.  All versions happen to be differentials, but the full is
> still there, ready to go when you want to restore one of the
differentials.
>
> In David's example,
>
> > 1)      [management class/copygroup] with retonly=15 and retextra=15
> > 2)      it received data from a backup node (NDMP) process
> > 3)      the NDMP runs a full backup once every six months
> > 4)      the NDMP run an incremental monthly on the months a full is not
> run
>
> Again, you will have 15 restorable backup versions.  Each version
> might be a full or might be a differential.  The oldest versions
> might be differentials with no visible full, but the full is still
available.
>
> Mark Haye (马克海), IBM TSM Server Development, mark.haye AT us.ibm DOT com,
> 8/321-4403, (520)799-4403, 0N6/9062-2, Tucson Professional
> programmer.  Closed source.  Do not attempt.
>
>
> "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L AT vm.marist DOT edu> wrote on 02/22/2012
> 09:59:23 AM:
>
> > From: "Prather, Wanda" <wPrather AT ICFI DOT COM>
> > To: ADSM-L AT vm.marist DOT edu
> > Date: 02/22/2012 10:10 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] What if (NDMP)
> > Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L AT vm.marist DOT edu>
> >
> > I'm glad David asked this question, because I have the same one, as I
> > have been digging around in the backups table trying to figure out
> > what goes on.
> >
> > The question is, if retextra is 15 and retonly is 15, and you take one
> > full NDMP backup followed by 20 diffs, does anything roll off? How
> > many fulls and diffs do you have left in the DB?
> >
> > Does the retextra/retonly apply just to the fulls, or just to the
> > diffs? Both? How?
> >
> > Wanda
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU] On Behalf
> > Of Christian Svensson
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:27 AM
> > To: ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
> > Subject: [ADSM-L] SV: What if
> >
> > Hi,
> > The Full Backup and Inc Backup are the same object for TSM.
> >
> > That mean if you backup the Full Backup with Managment Class A then
> > backup Incremental with MG Class B, TSM will then change the FULL
> > backup to MG Class B.
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Christian Svensson
> >
> > Cell: +46-70-325 1577
> > E-mail: Christian.Svensson AT cristie DOT se
> > CPU2TSM Support: http://www.cristie.se/cpu2tsm-supported-platforms
> >
> > Join us at Pulse 2012: http://www.ibm.com/pulse
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > Från: Ehresman,David E. [deehre01 AT LOUISVILLE DOT EDU]
> > Skickat: den 22 februari 2012 14:20
> > Till: ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
> > Ämne: What if
> >
> > What if there were a
> >
> > 1)      storage pool with retonly=15 and retextra=15
> >
> > 2)      it received data from a backup node (NDMP) process
> >
> > 3)      the NDMP runs a full backup once every six months
> >
> > 4)      the NDMP run an incremental monthly on the months a full is not
> run
> >
> > What data does TSM actually retain?
> >
> > David
> >