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Mike,
You've exposed me.
Abbott is indeed a small shop. We have only 2900 clients in our
corporate campus and about 16,000 jobs nightly. We only backup Windows
NT4/2000/2003, Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, Tru64, Linux, VMWare, and VMS. The
biggest single job is transferring less than 900 GB. While we do have 9
StorageTek robots - only 5 are even L700's - no christmas in May new-gen
libraries (but we did dump the 9740's :-) Aptare has a relationship with
STK and IBM, right? Boy, I need to talk to these guys.
We are languishing with only DLT-family drives - less than 50 SDLT
220's and a baker's dozen DLT 7000's. We are budgetting for a move to
LTO-II or III, but I'm scared of new technology. Maybe I can pick up some
pointers at www.aptare.com?
I'm sure most large corporate IT shops manage over the 500
policies and 1000 schedules we do. Boy, I guess we do have it easy.
You know, the 9 Petabytes we have on cataloged capacity seems like
we record everything 5 times a night. I'll bet Mr. stone is much more
efficient. I'll bet he manages a SAN environment much larger than the 200
TB we do. I'll bet he does it all by himself too. I know I'd be dead in
a week if I didn't have seven bust-ass co-workers who can fix any problem
which comes up. They've saved my hind quarters more than once. Boy I feel bad.
Oh, yeah. I'm not including our Domestic, Carribean and European
sites. But I'm betting Mr. stone has an office in Hong Kong and the silk
suits to prove it. Bet Aptare's label is one at least one.
Gosh, I'm going to call it a night after I send an eMail to
pleasesendmechotskies AT aptare DOT com
Michael F. Lavelle Abbott Labs,
Sr. Storage Engineer, CIT 100 Abbott Park Rd, AP14B-1
Phone: 847.937.1195 (Fx:935.9725) Abbott Park IL 60064-6042
Michael Anderson <andersom68 AT yahoo DOT com>
05/19/2005 10:58 PM
To: Michael F Lavelle <Michael.F.Lavelle AT abbott DOT com>, David
Rock
<dave-bu AT graniteweb DOT com>
cc: veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu, veritas-bu-admin AT
mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] What are you NOT backing up?
Do you have multiple environments / geographic regions
/ and mixed versions of NBU? A shop like yours is
surely small and defined.
Nobody can expec t to have error rates like that and
be confident in their recoveries. You would have to
have a tool such as Storage Console to achieve such
success.
--- Michael F Lavelle <Michael.F.Lavelle AT abbott DOT com>
wrote:
> David,
> I do notice you are a vendor's shill.
>
> What are your error rates for backup jobs?
> Abbott Laboratories has daily error rates
> for all backup jobs less
> than 0.4% for all jobs run, including all error code
> 41, 54, and 196
> failures.
>
> Hope to see you next week if you are in
> Chicago.
>
>
> Michael F. Lavelle
> Abbott Labs,
> Sr. Storage Engineer, CIT 100
> Abbott Park Rd, AP14B-1
> Phone: 847.937.1195 (Fx:935.9725) Abbott Park IL
> 60064-6042
>
>
>
>
>
>
> David Rock <dave-bu AT graniteweb DOT com>
> Sent by: veritas-bu-admin AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
> 05/19/2005 10:00 PM
> Please respond to David Rock
>
>
> To: veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu,
> veritas-bu-admin AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
> cc:
> Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] What are
> you NOT backing up?
>
>
> * Michael F Lavelle <Michael.F.Lavelle AT abbott DOT com>
> [2005-05-18 18:28]:
> > David,
> > Even if your backup policies are set to
> backup a certain
> directory
> > tree or filesystem, the goodies' coverage script
> will not tell you
> > anything about frequency of backups or retention.
> > More importantly, no 3rd party tool will
> inform you about
> > dependencies an application has on all data,
> binaries, configuration
> > files, device drivers, etc... That is still
> something you and your
> > customers have to define and prove thru DR
> testing.
>
> Well, duh!
>
> You will notice I didn't claim anything about
> frequency or retention, or
> dependencies between applications and data. If you
> _are_ relying on
> someone else to tell you how to do your job or how
> to run your
> business, you're crazy. I was simply pointing out
> that I saw something
> that has the potential to fill a gap that is a pain
> point for us and
> thought sharing would be a good thing.
>
> Storage Console _does_ help you see information
> about frequency
> (indirectly) by making it obvious if something has
> not been backing up
> for a while (displays last successful backup). As
> for retention, even SC
> has a ways to go with policy management reporting.
> I've posted my own
> version of policy reporting that includes vault
> information. last I
> checked, no one else, commercial or otherwise, has
> attempted to
> reconcile the polices to the vault profiles.
>
> You have to remember we are talking about backup
> reporting here, and
> ways to make that easier. Veritas certainly doesn't
> give you crap to do
> that. Their tech couldn't even get Command Central
> _installed_, let
> alone working after three weeks during our eval
> process. So you have
> three choices; live with the sub-standard reporting
> in NBU, write your
> own stuff and maintain it forever (which I am), or
> buy something to do it.
>
> I'm not the only customer that likes Storage
> Console, either. Seems to
> me that I have heard only good things from other
> people on this list
> about it. It's _not_ a magic bullet. If it was,
> there wouldn't be other
> products out there, but it's damn good at what it
> does. we looked at a
> half a dozen products over 6 - 8 months before
> buying it because it was
> the best one out there for us. It might not be the
> right solution for
> you.
>
> So before labeling me as a shill, try to keep in
> mind that I'm an
> overworked, underpaid NBU admin like the rest of the
> poor saps on this
> list. We all have the same problems with NBU, we've
> all been there at
> crunch time trying to explain why a file wasn't
> recoverable. backups
> suck, plain and simple. No one cares about it until
> it's too late, and
> then it's YOUR head because some moron neglected to
> mention that new
> mountpoint. I have 6 Master servers with 18 media
> servers backing up
> 1400 client machines in 3 different geographic
> locations. Ever try
> running 6 Java GUI's at the same time?
>
> I'm simply stating that a product that *I*
> recommended my company
> purchase, because it will make our awareness of our
> environment better
> so our customers' data is protected, has come out
> with a new feature
> that makes it that much better. I _still_ recommend
> anyone that needs a
> good NBU reporting tool really should take a look at
> Aptare's product.
>
> --
> David Rock
> david AT graniteweb DOT com
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Mike,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"> You've exposed
me.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"> Abbott is indeed a
small shop. We have only 2900 clients in our corporate campus and about
16,000 jobs nightly. We only backup Windows NT4/2000/2003, Solaris,
HP-UX, AIX, Tru64, Linux, VMWare, and VMS. The biggest single job is
transferring less than 900 GB. While we do have 9 StorageTek robots -
only 5 are even L700's - no christmas in May new-gen libraries (but we did dump
the 9740's :-) Aptare has a relationship with STK and IBM, right?
Boy, I need to talk to these guys.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"> We are languishing
with only DLT-family drives - less than 50 SDLT 220's and a baker's dozen DLT
7000's. We are budgetting for a move to LTO-II or III, but I'm scared of
new technology. Maybe I can pick up some pointers at
www.aptare.com?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"> I'm sure most large
corporate IT shops manage over the 500 policies and 1000 schedules we do.
Boy, I guess we do have it easy.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"> You know, the 9
Petabytes we have on cataloged capacity seems like we record everything 5 times
a night. I'll bet Mr. stone is much more efficient. I'll bet he
manages a SAN environment much larger than the 200 TB we do. I'll bet he
does it all by himself too. I know I'd be dead in a week if I didn't have
seven bust-ass co-workers who can fix any problem which comes up. They've
saved my hind quarters more than once. Boy I feel bad.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"> Oh, yeah. I'm
not including our Domestic, Carribean and European sites. But I'm betting
Mr. stone has an office in Hong Kong and the silk suits to prove it. Bet
Aptare's label is one at least one.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"> Gosh, I'm going to
call it a night after I send an eMail to pleasesendmechotskies AT aptare DOT
com<br>
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Michael F. Lavelle
Abbott Labs, <br>
Sr. Storage Engineer, CIT
100 Abbott Park Rd, AP14B-1<br>
Phone: 847.937.1195 (Fx:935.9725) Abbott Park IL
60064-6042<br>
<br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>Michael Anderson <andersom68 AT yahoo
DOT com></b></font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">05/19/2005 10:58 PM</font>
<br>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> To:
Michael F Lavelle <Michael.F.Lavelle AT abbott DOT
com>, David Rock <dave-bu AT graniteweb DOT com></font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> cc:
veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu, veritas-bu-admin
AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> Subject:
Re: [Veritas-bu] What are you NOT backing up?</font></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Do you have multiple environments /
geographic regions<br>
/ and mixed versions of NBU? A shop like yours is<br>
surely small and defined.<br>
<br>
Nobody can expec t to have error rates like that and<br>
be confident in their recoveries. You would have to<br>
have a tool such as Storage Console to achieve such<br>
success.<br>
<br>
<br>
--- Michael F Lavelle <Michael.F.Lavelle AT abbott DOT com><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> David,<br>
> I do notice you are a vendor's shill.<br>
> <br>
> What are your error rates for backup jobs?<br>
> Abbott Laboratories has daily error rates<br>
> for all backup jobs less <br>
> than 0.4% for all jobs run, including all error code<br>
> 41, 54, and 196 <br>
> failures.<br>
> <br>
> Hope to see you next week if you are in<br>
> Chicago.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Michael F. Lavelle
<br>
> Abbott Labs, <br>
> Sr. Storage Engineer, CIT
100<br>
> Abbott Park Rd, AP14B-1<br>
> Phone: 847.937.1195 (Fx:935.9725) Abbott Park IL<br>
> 60064-6042<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> David Rock <dave-bu AT graniteweb DOT com><br>
> Sent by: veritas-bu-admin AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu<br>
> 05/19/2005 10:00 PM<br>
> Please respond to David Rock<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> To: veritas-bu AT
mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu,<br>
> veritas-bu-admin AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu<br>
> cc: <br>
> Subject: Re:
[Veritas-bu] What are<br>
> you NOT backing up?<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> * Michael F Lavelle <Michael.F.Lavelle AT abbott DOT com><br>
> [2005-05-18 18:28]:<br>
> > David,<br>
> > Even if your backup policies are set
to<br>
> backup a certain <br>
> directory <br>
> > tree or filesystem, the goodies' coverage script<br>
> will not tell you <br>
> > anything about frequency of backups or retention.<br>
> > More importantly, no 3rd party tool
will<br>
> inform you about <br>
> > dependencies an application has on all data,<br>
> binaries, configuration <br>
> > files, device drivers, etc... That is still<br>
> something you and your <br>
> > customers have to define and prove thru DR<br>
> testing.<br>
> <br>
> Well, duh!<br>
> <br>
> You will notice I didn't claim anything about<br>
> frequency or retention, or<br>
> dependencies between applications and data. If you<br>
> _are_ relying on<br>
> someone else to tell you how to do your job or how<br>
> to run your<br>
> business, you're crazy. I was simply pointing out<br>
> that I saw something<br>
> that has the potential to fill a gap that is a pain<br>
> point for us and<br>
> thought sharing would be a good thing.<br>
> <br>
> Storage Console _does_ help you see information<br>
> about frequency<br>
> (indirectly) by making it obvious if something has<br>
> not been backing up<br>
> for a while (displays last successful backup). As<br>
> for retention, even SC<br>
> has a ways to go with policy management reporting.<br>
> I've posted my own<br>
> version of policy reporting that includes vault<br>
> information. last I<br>
> checked, no one else, commercial or otherwise, has<br>
> attempted to<br>
> reconcile the polices to the vault profiles.<br>
> <br>
> You have to remember we are talking about backup<br>
> reporting here, and<br>
> ways to make that easier. Veritas certainly doesn't<br>
> give you crap to do<br>
> that. Their tech couldn't even get Command Central<br>
> _installed_, let<br>
> alone working after three weeks during our eval<br>
> process. So you have<br>
> three choices; live with the sub-standard reporting<br>
> in NBU, write your<br>
> own stuff and maintain it forever (which I am), or<br>
> buy something to do it.<br>
> <br>
> I'm not the only customer that likes Storage<br>
> Console, either. Seems to<br>
> me that I have heard only good things from other<br>
> people on this list<br>
> about it. It's _not_ a magic bullet. If it was,<br>
> there wouldn't be other<br>
> products out there, but it's damn good at what it<br>
> does. we looked at a<br>
> half a dozen products over 6 - 8 months before<br>
> buying it because it was<br>
> the best one out there for us. It might not be the<br>
> right solution for<br>
> you.<br>
> <br>
> So before labeling me as a shill, try to keep in<br>
> mind that I'm an<br>
> overworked, underpaid NBU admin like the rest of the<br>
> poor saps on this<br>
> list. We all have the same problems with NBU, we've<br>
> all been there at<br>
> crunch time trying to explain why a file wasn't<br>
> recoverable. backups<br>
> suck, plain and simple. No one cares about it until<br>
> it's too late, and<br>
> then it's YOUR head because some moron neglected to<br>
> mention that new<br>
> mountpoint. I have 6 Master servers with 18 media<br>
> servers backing up<br>
> 1400 client machines in 3 different geographic<br>
> locations. Ever try<br>
> running 6 Java GUI's at the same time?<br>
> <br>
> I'm simply stating that a product that *I*<br>
> recommended my company<br>
> purchase, because it will make our awareness of our<br>
> environment better<br>
> so our customers' data is protected, has come out<br>
> with a new feature<br>
> that makes it that much better. I _still_ recommend<br>
> anyone that needs a<br>
> good NBU reporting tool really should take a look at<br>
> Aptare's product.<br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> David Rock<br>
> david AT graniteweb DOT com<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
<br>
<br>
__________________________________________________</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Do You Yahoo!?<br>
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>
http://mail.yahoo.com <br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
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