We are currently using PureDisk and NBU 5000 as well as DataDomain in our
many far-flung backup environments. Each one has its place. One thing to
remember that with the NBU7 deduplication or the NBU5000. You need an
additional per-TB deduplication option license for each TB of data that is
being protected, not the amount of disk space that is actually configured.
That license can be pretty pricey. Personally, I'm opposed to per-TB or
tiered licensing in general. I can see needing a license to enable the
deduplication capabilities in NBU, but not one to use an appliance we
already paid for.
In a previous job, I gave our Symantec reps a hard time about having to pay
a per-TB license for our VTLs asking them what value that license provided
us when the real value came from the VTL we purchased. It all seems like a
money grab on Symantec's part.
Sorry about getting off on a rant there...that's a hot-button topic for me.
So far, we are quite happy with the deduplication provided by NBU7 and
Puredisk. Setup of the NBU5000 is a piece of cake. I'll agree with a
previous poster and say that the DataDomains give us better overall
deduplication and throughput. My overall impressions so far is that the
DataDomain is more enterprise oriented while PureDisk and NBU5000 aren't
quite at that point yet.
--
Jack Forester, Jr.
Sr. Data Protection Administrator
Global Technology Services - AHS
Mylan, Inc.
5005 Greenbag Road
Morgantown, WV 26501
jack.forester AT mylan DOT com
Phone: +1.304.554.6039
Cell: +1.412.805.5313
From: "Pat McDonald" <pat_mcdonald AT symantec DOT com>
To: veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Cc: "Pat McDonald" <pat_mcdonald AT symantec DOT com>
Date: 02/14/2011 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] PureDisk vs. DataDomain
Sent by: veritas-bu-bounces AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Hi Mark,
You were right to explore lower cost alternative solutions for your
deduplication needs. As a long-time Data Domain customer you have
firsthand experience on how expensive those solutions can be. It is
unfortunate however that at the time you were evaluating a newer, lower
cost dedupe solution, you were unable to see and experience the full
potential of the “end-to-end deduplication” capabilities currently
available with NetBackup 7 and our new line of NetBackup 5000 deduplication
appliances.
The resulting power of our approach gives you the choice and flexibility to
deploy deduplication at the source, at the media server, and a simple, easy
to deploy, and yet highly scalable target global deduplication appliance as
well. Symantec NetBackup 7 Deduplication allows you to simultaneously
deploy and configure both source and target based dedupe with-in the same
infrastructure and with-out incurring exorbitant costs or deploying
incompatible solutions. This is simply not possible with an EMC
deduplication solution. You must choose between two incompatible
solutions, Data Domain and Avamar, both of which can be 2x-5x more
expensive than the Symantec Deduplication solution.
NetBackup 7 has deduplication built right in. It is easily configured at
the source or at the media server with just a backup policy settings.
Simply turn it on and you will quickly see the significant performance
gains from reducing network loads and reduced backup time in either virtual
or physical environments. The Symantec 5000 line of deduplication
appliances can also make your life very simple. As you mentioned
earlier, you needed to figure out which Data Domain appliances you needed,
most likely the minimum to keep the costs down. In each case, once they
are full, you will need to EOL those units and buy larger, more expensive
units as they are incompatible and cannot be connected to create a larger
global deduplication pool. Pretty expensive.
The new NetBackup 5000 appliances can be individually added (mix/match) and
scaled to meet the needs of just about any enterprise data center. The
beauty of this approach is the ability to add more and larger appliances to
your global pool as they become available to create even larger global
pools as your data continues to grow. Again, tough to do with either Data
Domain or Avamar.
With the rapidly evolving changes in IT infrastructures, the ability to
easily select a dedupe configuration that best fits your needs today while
letting you tune it for maximum performance, whether virtual or physical,
and then be able to easily change it without throwing any of it away, I
think would be of tremendous value to you and your organization. We would
hope that when your Data Domain is reaching its EOL, you would give
Symantec the opportunity to demonstrate the power of its complete
deduplication solution, and show you how we can help you to better manage
your storage dollars.
Thanks!
Pat McDonald
Principal Systems Engineer
Symantec Corporation
From: veritas-bu-bounces AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu [
mailto:veritas-bu-bounces AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu] On Behalf Of Mark
Glazerman
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:18 AM
To: Fred M
Cc: veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] PureDisk vs. DataDomain
We use both here and have been for over 4 years. We use Data Domain
for all of our data center backups and Puredisk (the original
appliance based version) for all of our remote file server backups.
We did look into Netbackup 7’s built in dedupe which uses the
puredisk dedupe engine to allow both client side and media server
dedupe of backups to any disk storage backends but just couldn’t get
the compression we get out of the data domain appliances. As an
example, our data domains currently house approximately 35 copies of
our exchange backups (700GB during a full backup) in 3.8TB of raw.
We presented the same amount of storage from a dell equallogic
storage array to a netbackup dedupe pool and we couldn’t fit 4 copies
of that same exchange data.
We’ve done countless reference calls for Data Domain detailing our
consideration of Netbackups built in dedupe and our findings. The
biggest problem is the Netbackup Puredisk dedupe uses a fixed block
algorithm where as the Data Domain’s use a variable block algorithm.
This allows the Data Domain appliances to generate much greater
compression.
The backup performance was comparable across both solutions but just
like we’ve seen with our appliance based puredisk environment,
restores from the Data Domain’s were MUCH faster than from the
puredisk storage. Netbackup 7 has improved the restore speeds but
it’s still not comparable to the 100GB /hour restore speeds we get
(simultaneously across multiple platforms / applications) at our
Disaster recovery exercises. In our production puredisk environment,
if we need to restore a 100GB file server to ship out to a plant it
can take up to 10-12 hours to restore.
If you have a HUGE pool of money to spend on back end disk then
Netbackup 7’s built in dedupe may still be an option for you.
However, we’d have needed to purchase more than 10X the raw disk
capacity of our data domain appliances in order to be able to house
the same amount of deduped data that our Data Domain’s currently
store. As existing Data Domain customers, this was not financially
viable and even the lure of a one stop shop for all backup storage
was not big enough for us to jump ship after 4+ years as Data Domain
users.
We started off with two dd430’s and later added two dd560’s. Now
have two DD670’s setup in a replication pair and use Storage
Lifecycle Policies (SLP’s) inside Netbackup coupled with the optional
Open Storage (OST) plugin to manage all but a handful of backup
policies. The OST plugin lets us make use of the Optimized
duplication technology to reduce bandwidth utilization between our
main data center and our DR site and the tighter integration with
Netbackup gives us additional visibility of both our primary and now
also our duplicated images from inside the catalog.
Yes… I’m a Data Domain fan but that’s not because I’m getting paid to
say this stuff. It’s because it works flawlessly, has got us out of
some real binds and makes my boss look like a rockstar at our twice
yearly DR tests. If we’d seen similar numbers from Netbackup then
I’d be singing a different tune but for now, Data Domain has my vote.
Mark Glazerman
Desk: 314-889-8282
Cell: 618-520-3401
P please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to
From: veritas-bu-bounces AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu [
mailto:veritas-bu-bounces AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu] On Behalf Of
Fred M
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 10:14 PM
To: veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Subject: [Veritas-bu] PureDisk vs. DataDomain
Hi all,
My employer is requesting I evaluate PureDisk and DataDomain for
de-duplication. While I can setup a demo of each and get the numbers,
and ask the sales guys what makes them great and why their
competitors aren't, I can't trust that is nothing more than sales
drivel. So, I ask you expert users. Can anyone tell me what their
experiences are with DataDomain and PureDisk and why you went with
that solution from a technical perspective? You know, the typical
pro/con deal.
Thanks for the help!
~~Fred~~
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