I am not looking for "easy" or "fast". I am looking for "CORRECT".
If SQL backups kill the rest of the backup system, then it ain't CORRECT.
If the backups don't happen, then you can't recover.
This thread was not about theoretical practices, but about specifics about
MS SQL. I have several customers with several hundred TB per week of
backups. I understand Disaster Recovery for SOX, Nuclear Regulatory
Commission (NRC) and HIPPA.
I have used the disk based backups in the Nuclear industry very
successfully. MSSQL and Oracle DBA's loved it.
I don't mean to sound haughty, but I have to do MY backups in a manner which
meets MY SLA's.
That is why MY conclusion was to listen the SQL folks and I will have to
configure MY environment around MY judgment.
Proverbs 12:15 tells us that "the way of the fool is right in his own eyes,
but wise is the man that seeks counsel".
I have been seeking counsel. I will be held accountable for the
implementation.
Bobby Williams
2205 Peterson Drive
Chattanooga, Tennessee 37421
423-296-8200
-----Original Message-----
From: Clem Kruger [mailto:clem AT re-thinking-it DOT com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 11:11 AM
To: Jeff Lightner; Mike L. Varney; bobbyrjw AT comcast DOT net
Cc: veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] (Conclusion) Are my SQL DBA's lying to me?
Amen!
Jeff I commend you for those words.
Our industry is not about backups but rather about recovery and about how
fast we can recover.
Ensuring that we can bring up a system or company in the fastest and most
accurate way is about saving money.
Well said Jeff.
Kind Regards,
Clem Kruger
-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-bounces AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-bounces AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu] On Behalf Of Jeff
Lightner
Sent: 15 October 2007 15:02 PM
To: Mike L. Varney; bobbyrjw AT comcast DOT net
Cc: veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] (Conclusion) Are my SQL DBA's lying to me?
"easy" and "fast" are often mutually exclusive.
Many people do multiplexing backups because they want "fast" backups and end
up turning them off after the first major outage because they find out it
doesn't allow for "fast" restores.
Of course what is important is "recovery" time rather than "restore" time.
It doesn't matter if you can do your database restore in 10 minutes if that
requires the DBAs to take 3 weeks to "recover" the database. Conversely if
you can save 8 hours of restore time by making the DBAs do 2 hours of extra
recovery work you've got a net gain of 6 hours and should plan your
recoveries around that method regardless of how the DBAs feel about it.
The idea is to figure out the right balance for your needs. Obviously if
you want to backup every day and your individual database backups take more
than 24 hours you can't do it the way you have been. Options are to buy
more hardware or figure out a better way to make your existing equipment do
the backup in the window you have. Eventually you'll find the latter is no
longer an option but you'll have to have done a lot of homework to convince
your management of it.
-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-bounces AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-bounces AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu] On Behalf Of Mike L.
Varney
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 7:53 AM
To: bobbyrjw AT comcast DOT net
Cc: veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] (Conclusion) Are my SQL DBA's lying to me?
As a Sybase DBA who deals with a very similar type of backup setup, I'd let
it do the individual backups rather than letting them go to a filesystem and
backing them up bulk. I find doing logical restores especially much easier
if my databases are talking right to NetBackup (via the agent) rather than
adding in the intermediate filesystem step (where the DB server can't access
the backup data directly).
-- M
"Bobby Williams"
<bobbyrjw@comcast
.net> To
Sent by: <veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT
edu>
veritas-bu-bounce cc
s AT mailman.eng DOT aub
urn.edu Subject
[Veritas-bu] (Conclusion) Are my
SQL DBA's lying to me?
10/13/2007 07:24
AM
Please respond to
bobbyrjw@comcast.
net
I will take the Audience answer that each dbf of the instance comes as a
separate backup job.
I think that the best answer is convert to a disk based backup and not use
the SQL agent.
Thanks for the input.
(It is nice to be able to ask this group for answers and opinions about
issues that we don't see a lot of)
Bobby Williams
2205 Peterson Drive
Chattanooga, Tennessee 37421
423-296-8200
From: rcarlisle [mailto:rcarlisle AT serverwarecorp DOT com]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 6:08 PM
To: 'Johnson, Eric'; bobbyrjw AT comcast DOT net; veritas-bu AT
mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Are my SQL DBA's lying to me?
That's always the way I have seen it as well. If you have a server with
tons of small databases, you sometimes get better performance is you just do
a data dump to a file and back up the file systems.
Reneé Carlisle
ServerWare Corporation
From: veritas-bu-bounces AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-bounces AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu] On Behalf Of Johnson,
Eric
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 5:40 PM
To: bobbyrjw AT comcast DOT net; veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Are my SQL DBA's lying to me?
Hi Bobby,
I believe they are telling you the truth. I've set up the MS SQL agent as
well, and every database comes through as it's own backup job. I'm not aware
of any way to alter this behaviour, but I haven't really looked into it.
Eric
From: Bobby Williams [mailto:bobbyrjw AT comcast DOT net]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 1:41 PM
To: veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Subject: [Veritas-bu] Are my SQL DBA's lying to me?
NetBackup 5.0MP6 using MS SQL agent.
DBA's are saying that each database file in the DB instance has to come to
the master/media server as a separate backup job.
I get hundreds of little bitty backups every time the logs need backed up.
Is this how other folks see the SQL agent implemented?
Bobby Williams
2205 Peterson Drive
Chattanooga, Tennessee 37421
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