I agree, disk may not be cheaper BUT one can choose what disk one should
use for backups (Tier1 to Tier 4).

As we have seen in earlier posts there is a fair amount of work to be
done in maintaining VTL tapes which have expired (a salary cost). If
your master and media servers have been setup correctly you will find
that writing to tape is faster as you can send multiple data streams to
the tape AND the tape drive does the compression.

Compression on a VTL is done by the operating system (normally LINUX)
which we all know is a slow process and therefore not recommended. Your
VTL supplier will also recommend that you do not multistream as this
also slows down the process.

If you want to use disk to disk backups, then do just that! It is
available in version 6.0 and 6.5. 6.5 also has a de-duplication facility
which will save you space on the disk (you can choice from 1 Tier to 4
Tier) and the raid group you would like to use AND 6.5 has a replication
facility to replicate the disk image off site.

If your management insist on VTL, my advice is to get the supplier to do
a face off between tape and VTL. Don't be intimidated by them! All VTL
vendors use SCSI emulation which has an overhead cost to it (they may
deny this but it is fact). They will promise you that offsite storage is
simple. Let them demonstrate life. Don't be fooled by their added media
server. It all a pain and a lot more work, as well as being costly.

Tape will remain cheaper and the tape drive manufacturers are fighting
hard to keep tape that why, with larger capacity and faster drives, this
despite the fact that they know that tape has beginning to reach the end
of its life cycle.

If you abandon tape rather go for disk to disk as it is easier faster
and safer. If you are not cash critical rather go for Veritas Storage
Foundation as the snap shot technology will allow to create a snap shot
an any available disk on any array, which is attached to the SAN. It has
all the tools included in the product that you will have to purchase
from disk array suppliers at an enormous cost. The replication will also
guarantee your data arrives at the offsite facility and is recoverable.
Oracle backups can be at block level saving an incredible amount of time
and backup space.


Clem.

-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-bounces AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-bounces AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu] On Behalf Of Jeff
Lightner
Sent: 21 September 2007 16:34 PM
To: Justin Piszcz
Cc: veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Tapeless backup environments?

Disk is not cheaper?  You've done a cost analysis?

Not saying you're wrong and I haven't done an analysis but I'd be
surprised if disks didn't actually work out to be cheaper over time:

1) Tapes age/break - We buy on average several hundred tapes a year -
support on a disk array for failing disks may or may not be more
expensive.

2) Transport/storage - We have to pay for offsite storage and transfer -
it seems just putting an array in offsite facility would eliminate the
need for transportation (in trucks) cost.  Of course there would be cost
in the data transfer disk to disk but since everyone seems to have
connectivity over the internet it might be possible to do this using a
B2B link rather than via dedicated circuits.

3) Labor cost in dealing with mechanical failures of robots.   This one
is hidden in salary but every time I have to work on a robot it means I
can't be working on something else.   While disk drives fail it doesn't
seem to happen nearly as often as having to fish a tape out of a drive
or the tape drive itself having failed.


-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Piszcz [mailto:jpiszcz AT lucidpixels DOT com] 
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 10:08 AM
To: Jeff Lightner
Cc: veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Tapeless backup environments?



On Fri, 21 Sep 2007, Jeff Lightner wrote:

> Yesterday our director said that he doesn't intend to ever upgrade
> existing STK L700 because eventually we'll go tapeless as that is what
> the industry is doing.   The idea being we'd have our disk backup
> devices here (e.g. Data Domain) and transfer to offsite storage to
> another disk device so as to eliminate the need for ever transporting
> tapes.
>
> It made me wonder if anyone was actually doing the above already or
was
> planning to do so?
>

That seems to be the way people are 'thinking' but the bottom line is
disk 
still is not cheaper than LTO-3 tape and there are a lot of advantages
to 
tape; however, convicing management of this is an uphill battle.

Justin.
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