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[Veritas-bu] Is there an official document of client and serv er NIC and switch settings

2004-03-17 15:33:30
Subject: [Veritas-bu] Is there an official document of client and serv er NIC and switch settings
From: Dan.Otto AT veritas DOT com (Dan Otto)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:33:30 -0600 
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>From a top of my soap box-

For my two cents on auto-negotiation, we all know most switch vendors
support the auto-negotiate feature that is supposed to allow the switch
to determine the port settings based on what is optimum for the NIC
card. Auto-negotiation issues may result from non-conforming
implementation, hardware in-capabilities, or software defects. When
NIC's or vendor switches do not conform exactly to the IEEE
specification 802.3u, problems may result. Hardware incompatibility and
other issues may also exist as a result of vendor-specific advanced
features, such as auto-polarity or cabling integrity, that are not
described in IEEE 802.3u specification for 10/100 Mbps auto-negotiation.
Generally, if both the NIC and the switch adhere to the IEEE 802.3u
auto-negotiation specifications and all additional features are
disabled, auto-negotiation should properly negotiate speed and duplex
and no operational issues should exist. However in my years of
experience in networking this rarely works as the vendor claims and its
best to hard code these settings on the switch port and the NIC card. I
also recommend any switch ports with servers and/or workstations
attached to disable spanning tree to force the ports always into
forwarding mode. But do not under any conditions disable spanning tree
on ports with other networking devices such as routers or other switches
unless you like dealing with routing loops.

=20

I always was of the mind set that auto-negotiation was more of a
marketing feature than a real practical tool.=20

=20

So when you can (One exception would be the HP gig cards can't be
disabled for auto-neg and still run at gig speed) hard code both ends
and in the case of 100meg NIC's make them speed =3D 100meg and full
duplex.

Hope this helps and thanks for allowing that rant.

Dan O

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-admin AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-admin AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu] On Behalf Of Chapman,
Scott
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:17 PM
To: 'bryan_bahnmiller AT agilent DOT com'; cheryl.king AT intrado DOT com;
veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Is there an official document of client and
serv er NIC and switch settings

=20

Cheryl,=20

I second this.  We always force our 100mbit clients to 100 fdx,
otherwise small backups WILL take forever.  I don't have any experience
with HP, but I would look into why you can't run fdx on those machines .
. . Hdx eeeewww!

It is my understanding that with 100mbit ethernet, autonegotiate is NOT
built into the definition.  So even though manufacturers say they
support autonegotiate, it is up to them how to define how it will work;
thus manufacturer A's network card doesn't really autoneg with
manufacturer B's switch.  That said, it is also my understanding that
with gig, autoneg is built into the definition, so manufacturers have to
work to a specific standard . . . At least this is what I have been told
. . .

Hope this helps.=20

  _____ =20
 =20
Scott Chapman=20
Enterprise Computing Technical Support=20
ICBC - Victoria=20
Phone: 250.414.7650  Fax: 250.978.8003  Cel: 250.213.9295=20

=20

-----Original Message-----=20
From: bryan_bahnmiller AT agilent DOT com [mailto:bryan_bahnmiller AT agilent 
DOT com]

Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:55 AM=20
To: cheryl.king AT intrado DOT com; veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu=20
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Is there an official document of client and
server NIC and switch settings=20

=20

Cheryl,=20

  <sarcasm>NetBackup is the most complete network trouble-shooting tool
we have found!=20
  </sarcasm>=20

  Unfortunately this is true. Network backups seem to tax network
infrastructure more than almost any other application - NFS, CIFS,
Oracle replication,... As such, any small network problem that is
normally overcome by re-transmission of packets, becomes much more
visible with NetBackup.

  We have set up standards with our network, Unix and Windows
organizations. We have explicitly told them that all backup network
ports are to be fixed to the maximum setting. That is, the server has to
be fixed to 10 or 100, half or full duplex. And the switch port has to
be fixed to the same setting.

  Auto-negotiation seems to work about 20% of the time. So about 80% of
the time you will have backup problems. The only sure method of
preventing problems is to have organizational standards to explicitly
set the NICs and ports.

   Bryan=20

Bryan Bahnmiller=20
IT Specialist - Storage=20
Agilent Technologies=20
 =20

-----Original Message-----=20
From: King, Cheryl [mailto:cheryl.king AT intrado DOT com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:03 PM=20
To: Veritas-Bu (E-mail)=20
Subject: [Veritas-bu] Is there an official document of client and server
NIC and switch settings=20

=20

Over and over again we have problems with poor performance with new
client backups and restores.  Is there a document that says what the NIC
settings should be for each client type?  For example we have highest
speed possible for all of them, half duplex for HP, and full duplex for
everything else, I think (I haven't checked every system and wasn't here
when some were implemented).  Setting Auto detect on the switch seems to
not work correctly (causes slow performance).   I think the switches are
set to match the server, but have no way to verify that.  I'd like to be
able to present an official document to the System Administrators and
the Network Engineers that states the correct configuration
requirements.  Does Veritas have such a document or statement?

Is this a problem in other environments?  Is this just an issue in
Veritas Backup environments?  Are my SAs and Network Engineers not
following some industry, standard, best-practices?    I've been in IT
for many years but working with Veritas NBU for 1 year.  I don't recall
ever having network issues like this before.

NBU 4.5 FP5 Solaris 8 Master/Media=20
Clients OSF1_V5, HP-UX 11.00, HP-UX10.20, Windows2000, WindowsNT,
RedHat2.4, RedHat 2.2, Solaris8, Solaris7.=20

Thanks in advance.=20

Cheryl King=20

=20

_______________________________________________=20
Veritas-bu maillist  -  Veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu=20

_______________________________________________=20
Veritas-bu maillist  -  Veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu=20


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<title>RE: [Veritas-bu] Is there an official document of client and =
server NIC
and switch settings</title>

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>From a top of my =
soap
box-</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For my two cents =
on
auto-negotiation, we all know most switch vendors support the =
auto-negotiate
feature that is supposed to allow the switch to determine the port =
settings
based on what is optimum for the NIC card. Auto-negotiation issues may =
result
from non-conforming implementation, hardware in-capabilities, or =
software
defects. When NIC's or vendor switches do not conform exactly to the =
IEEE
specification 802.3u, problems may result. Hardware incompatibility and =
other
issues may also exist as a result of vendor-specific advanced features, =
such as
auto-polarity or cabling integrity, that are not described in IEEE =
802.3u
specification for 10/100 Mbps auto-negotiation. Generally, if both the =
NIC and
the switch adhere to the IEEE 802.3u auto-negotiation specifications and =
all
additional features are disabled, auto-negotiation should properly =
negotiate
speed and duplex and no operational issues should exist. However in my =
years of
experience in networking this rarely works as the vendor claims and its =
best to
hard code these settings on the switch port and the NIC =
card</span></font>. <font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>I also recommend any switch ports with servers and/or =
workstations
attached to disable spanning tree to force the ports always into =
forwarding
mode. But do not under any conditions disable spanning tree on ports =
with other
networking devices such as routers or other switches unless you like =
dealing
with routing loops.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I always was of =
the mind
set that auto-negotiation was more of a marketing feature than a real =
practical
tool. </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So when you can =
(One exception
would be the HP gig cards can&#8217;t be disabled for auto-neg and still =
run at
gig speed) hard code both ends and in the case of 100meg NIC&#8217;s =
make them
speed =3D 100meg and full duplex.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hope this helps =
and thanks
for allowing that rant.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dan =
O</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
veritas-bu-admin AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-admin AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Chapman, Scott<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March =
17, 2004
2:17 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
'bryan_bahnmiller AT agilent DOT com';
cheryl.king AT intrado DOT com; veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Veritas-bu] =
Is there
an official document of client and serv er NIC and switch =
settings</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Cheryl,</span></font> </p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I second this.&nbsp; We always force our =
100mbit
clients to 100 fdx, otherwise small backups WILL take forever.&nbsp; I =
don't
have any experience with HP, but I would look into why you can't run fdx =
on
those machines . . . Hdx eeeewww!</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>It is my understanding that with 100mbit =
ethernet,
autonegotiate is NOT built into the definition.&nbsp; So even though
manufacturers say they support autonegotiate, it is up to them how to =
define
how it will work; thus manufacturer A's network card doesn't really =
autoneg
with manufacturer B's switch.&nbsp; That said, it is also my =
understanding that
with gig, autoneg is built into the definition, so manufacturers have to =
work
to a specific standard . . . At least this is what I have been told . . =
.</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Hope this helps.</span></font> </p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp; _____&nbsp; </span></font><br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font> =
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Scott =
Chapman</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Enterprise Computing =
Technical
Support</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>ICBC - =
Victoria</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Phone: =
250.414.7650&nbsp; Fax:
250.978.8003&nbsp; Cel: 250.213.9295</span></font> </p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From: =
bryan_bahnmiller AT agilent DOT com
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:bryan_bahnmiller AT agilent DOT 
com">mailto:bryan_bahnmiller@agil=
ent.com</a>]
</span></font><br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Sent: Wednesday, March =
17, 2004
11:55 AM</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To: =
cheryl.king AT intrado DOT com;
veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: RE: =
[Veritas-bu] Is there
an official document of client and server NIC and switch =
settings</span></font>
</p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Cheryl,</span></font> </p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp; &lt;sarcasm&gt;NetBackup is the most =
complete
network trouble-shooting tool we have found!</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp; =
&lt;/sarcasm&gt;</span></font>
</p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp; Unfortunately this is true. Network =
backups
seem to tax network infrastructure more than almost any other =
application -
NFS, CIFS, Oracle replication,... As such, any small network problem =
that is
normally overcome by re-transmission of packets, becomes much more =
visible with
NetBackup.</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp; We have set up standards with our =
network, Unix
and Windows organizations. We have explicitly told them that all backup =
network
ports are to be fixed to the maximum setting. That is, the server has to =
be
fixed to 10 or 100, half or full duplex. And the switch port has to be =
fixed to
the same setting.</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp; Auto-negotiation seems to work about =
20% of the
time. So about 80% of the time you will have backup problems. The only =
sure
method of preventing problems is to have organizational standards to =
explicitly
set the NICs and ports.</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Bryan</span></font> </p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Bryan Bahnmiller</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>IT Specialist - =
Storage</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Agilent =
Technologies</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font> =
</p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From: King, Cheryl [<a
href=3D"mailto:cheryl.king AT intrado DOT com">mailto:cheryl.king AT intrado 
DOT com</a=
>]</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Sent: Wednesday, March =
17, 2004
12:03 PM</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To: Veritas-Bu =
(E-mail)</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: [Veritas-bu] Is =
there an
official document of client and server NIC and switch =
settings</span></font> </p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Over and over again we have problems with =
poor
performance with new client backups and restores.&nbsp; Is there a =
document
that says what the NIC settings should be for each client type?&nbsp; =
For
example we have highest speed possible for all of them, half duplex for =
HP, and
full duplex for everything else, I think (I haven't checked every system =
and
wasn't here when some were implemented).&nbsp; Setting Auto detect on =
the
switch seems to not work correctly (causes slow =
performance).&nbsp;&nbsp; I
think the switches are set to match the server, but have no way to =
verify
that.&nbsp; I'd like to be able to present an official document to the =
System
Administrators and the Network Engineers that states the correct =
configuration
requirements.&nbsp; Does Veritas have such a document or =
statement?</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Is this a problem in other =
environments?&nbsp; Is this
just an issue in Veritas Backup environments?&nbsp; Are my SAs and =
Network
Engineers not following some industry, standard, =
best-practices?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
I've been in IT for many years but working with Veritas NBU for 1 =
year.&nbsp; I
don't recall ever having network issues like this =
before.</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>NBU 4.5 FP5 Solaris 8 =
Master/Media</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Clients OSF1_V5, HP-UX =
11.00,
HP-UX10.20, Windows2000, WindowsNT, RedHat2.4, RedHat 2.2, Solaris8, =
Solaris7.</span></font>
</p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks in advance.</span></font> </p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Cheryl King</span></font> </p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>______________________________________________=
_</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Veritas-bu =
maillist&nbsp; -&nbsp;
Veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu <a
href=3D"http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-=
bu</a></span></font>
</p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>______________________________________________=
_</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Veritas-bu =
maillist&nbsp; -&nbsp;
Veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu <a
href=3D"http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-=
bu</a></span></font>
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