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Got to agree on this......
Our Netbackup 3.4 platform is horrifyingly expensive - not just the Software
but even the Hardware platform is just too much for what we use the product
for!
Alto of the features we do not use in NBU either - We still use Omniback for
Unix. There was nothing wrong with it, but some idiot went to a seminar and
was amazed to see 1GB of data being backed up in less than a minute and was
sold!!
Shame no one told this guy that it was NOT live Data and it did NOT have the
millions of small, medium and large files that exist within our company!
Plus we only backup approx 1TB or Data - I know most NBU users probably
backup Data in the 1TB - 20TB margin!
Think carefully about the maintenance! When Netbackup does go wrong (and it
can) then the support is crucial!
Plan carefully and don't just be sold on words / pictures - sometimes it
pays to stay as you are!
Simon Weaver
NT Domain Administrator
Ext. 5544
Tel: 02392-705544 (Direct Dial)
Simon.Weaver AT Astrium-Space DOT com
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Oestergaard [mailto:joe AT joe DOT net]
Sent: 20 February 2003 11:40:AM
To: Perales, Carlos; 'veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu'
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] NBU vs Omniback
I don't know anything about Omniback, but we invested in NBU some years ago
and I did the evaluation (including the cost side)
If your installation is small NBU comes at a high cost, but compared to
other backup software in the same "class" it's almost the same.
I also looked at TSM and a little on CA's product. The difference in prices
was minor.
I remember one thing at that time with TSM (I know it has changed) that the
licenses for a library was based on when IBM's libraries changed sizes so
because we used a STK library we had to get a very big ($$$) licens on the
library because the STK had a few slots more then the IBM library.
Clients/agents cost almost the same (at least for the ones we needed)
If management start to talk about cost remember to take all things into
account.
If you already have the NBU licenses you need and have maintenance the only
cost you would save is the maintenance, but you would have to pay for a new
Omniback licens plus maintenance. And the migration would also cost you
money (remember to include education)
You also have to plan for how to restore old data. Som installations need to
be able to restore more then 5-10 years old data, so you would have to do
something about that.
What would errors cost you?
How big is you installation? What platforms are you using? What databases
and mailsystem and so on?
What storage hardware do you have today.
Remember that a migration done just because you want to migrate is money out
of the window.
What does the business get from it.
At 14:36 19-02-2003 -0600, Perales, Carlos wrote:
My company is thinking on moving from NetBackup to Omniback.
I have used Netbackup since I just started with backup softwares and I'm
happy with it, however my company complains about the high cost of the
platform and how much we'll reduce the cost if we move to Omniback which
seems to be way cheaper.
Any suggestions ?
Will you care sending me notes or thoughts about why I shouldn't change the
SW ?
I really like the NBU platform, however it seems like Omniback is a good
choice (although I don't know anything of the bad things about Omniback)
Carlos
...
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>G=
ot to
agree on this……<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>O=
ur
Netbackup 3.4 platform is horrifyingly expensive – not just the =
Software but
even the Hardware platform is just too much for what we use the product =
for!<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>A=
lto of
the features we do not use in NBU either – We still use Omniback =
for Unix.
There was nothing wrong with it, but some idiot went to a seminar and =
was
amazed to see 1GB of data being backed up in less than a minute and was =
sold!!<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span=
></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>S=
hame no
one told this guy that it was NOT live Data and it did NOT have the =
millions of
small, medium and large files that exist within our =
company!<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>P=
lus we
only backup approx 1TB or Data – I know most NBU users probably =
backup Data in
the 1TB – 20TB margin!<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>T=
hink
carefully about the maintenance! When Netbackup does go wrong (and it =
can) then
the support is crucial!<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>P=
lan
carefully and don’t just be sold on words / pictures – =
sometimes it pays to
stay as you are!<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle15><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail=20
Signature" <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![end=
if]--><b><font
size=3D5 color=3Dred><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:red;font-weight:bold'>Simon =
Weaver<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><b><font size=3D4 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;font-weig=
ht:bold'>NT
Domain Administrator<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D1 color=3D"#999999" face=3D"Times =
New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:#999999'>Ext. =
5544<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D1 color=3D"#999999" face=3D"Times =
New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:#999999'>Tel:
02392-705544 (Direct Dial)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D1 color=3D"#999999" face=3D"Times =
New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:#999999'>Simon.=
Weaver AT Astrium-Space DOT com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle15><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-end'></span></span></font></span><![endif]-->=
<span
class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Johnny Oestergaard
[mailto:joe AT joe DOT net]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 20 February 2003 =
11:40:AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Perales, Carlos;
'veritas-bu AT mailman.eng.auburn DOT edu'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: =
[Veritas-bu] NBU vs
Omniback</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I =
don't know
anything about Omniback, but we invested in NBU some years ago and I =
did the
evaluation (including the cost side)<br>
If your installation is small NBU comes at a high cost, but compared to =
other
backup software in the same "class" it's almost the same.<br>
I also looked at TSM and a little on CA's product. The difference in =
prices was
minor.<br>
I remember one thing at that time with TSM (I know it has changed) that =
the
licenses for a library was based on when IBM's libraries changed sizes =
so
because we used a STK library we had to get a very big ($$$) licens on =
the
library because the STK had a few slots more then the IBM library.<br>
Clients/agents cost almost the same (at least for the ones we =
needed)<br>
<br>
If management start to talk about cost remember to take all things into
account.<br>
If you already have the NBU licenses you need and have maintenance the =
only
cost you would save is the maintenance, but you would have to pay for a =
new
Omniback licens plus maintenance. And the migration would also cost you =
money (remember
to include education)<br>
You also have to plan for how to restore old data. Som installations =
need to be
able to restore more then 5-10 years old data, so you would have to do
something about that.<br>
What would errors cost you?<br>
<br>
How big is you installation? What platforms are you using? What =
databases and
mailsystem and so on?<br>
What storage hardware do you have today.<br>
<br>
Remember that a migration done just because you want to migrate is =
money out of
the window.<br>
What does the business get from it.<br>
<br>
<br>
At 14:36 19-02-2003 -0600, Perales, Carlos wrote:<br>
<br style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>My
company is thinking on moving from NetBackup to Omniback.<br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>I have used Netbackup since I just =
started with
backup softwares and I'm happy with it, however my company complains =
about the
high cost of the platform and how much we'll reduce the cost if we move =
to
Omniback which seems to be way cheaper.<br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Any suggestions ?<br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Will you care sending me notes or =
thoughts about
why I shouldn't change the SW ?<br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>I really like the NBU platform, however =
it seems
like Omniback is a good choice (although I don't know anything of the =
bad
things about Omniback)<br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Carlos<br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
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