I've been looking at this recently, as well as the HP VLS 9000.
I want to be specific as to what configuration, with the EDL's that I'm
looking at so you know from where I'm coming.
I'm looking at a de-dupe variant of the EDL4206, or 4406. This would have
the 3D4000 on the back, to do the de-dupe. It would then replicate to
another 4000 at a remote site, which is connected to another 4206 or 4406.
We'll have replication going in both directions.
So, in terms of the embedded storage node, the EDL 4206 has 12 FC ports. 4
in, 4 out, and 4 flex ports (Can be in or out). The out is to connect to
another library (usually physical, but in my case it would be the 4000). So,
this leaves 4 in and 4 ?????
So, Curtis, normally you'll have a couple of FC ports to your "tape"
devices. The most the 4206 is capable of is 1600MB per sec... that would be
using all 4 in and, I suggest, probably some of the flex ports.
So, if you use an external SN, you'll be using some of those "in" ports.
This means that if you are using group automatic cloning, you have reduced
your throughput... having said that, I do agree that you shouldn't clone at
the same time as backing up, unless your backup throughput is low and you
have the bandwidth to spare.
Are you suggesting that you have a separate SN with separate FC links to the
physical library? IF so, why wouldn't you do it, and why would you use the
ESN?
Well, you've already got the Linux boxes inside the EDL. They already have a
switch dedicated for out so, depending on the price of the ESN, there is a
potential fiscal advantage. Also the throughput from the EDL to the physical
tape devices is literally straight from disk, via back plane, to tape,
rather than disk via back plane, via fc through the back plane to fc to
tape.
Now, I've asked throughput from EMC, btw, and I got that you should expect
the max performance of a 4206 to clone at 800Mb sec. It should be able to go
faster, but seems to be limited by the Linux box (Some Dell thing!).
What I like about the ESN is that we have dedicated SN's, not SN's. Thus,
the dedicated SN is a production machine. By using the ESN, I offload the
cloning from the DSN, and I also do not load the NetWorker server.
Having said all that, the jury is still out :-)
Siobhan
-----Original Message-----
From: EMC NetWorker discussion [mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU] On
Behalf Of W. Curtis Preston
Sent: Monday, 4 May 2009 5:13 PM
To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
Subject: Re: [Networker] Clone from EDL to library
I know it's been a month since you posted this. I missed it then. Sorry
for the late response.
So you're saying that the dedicated SN inside the EDL can do the cloning for
a SAN Storage Node that has better things to do. I get that, but the same
can be said of a dedicated SN NOT inside the EDL.
I don't see this as anything different than THAT, other than not having to
buy another node. It's just that the EMC bloggers talk like this is such a
superior way of doing things. I don't see how it's superior -- just
different. (And I see downsides that I already pointed out.)
-----Original Message-----
From: lemons_terry AT emc DOT com [mailto:lemons_terry AT emc DOT com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:09 AM
To: wcplists1 AT GMAIL DOT COM
Cc: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
Subject: RE: [Networker] Clone from EDL to library
Hi Curtis
Well, IMHO (and the opinion of the many people who use this option) the
advantage is that the 'production' storage nodes and the production SAN
are not burdened with cloning; this is all done internally to the EDL.
Yes, it does put a load on the EDL engine. But SOME system has to take
on the burden, and I'd rather have it be a dedicated backup appliance
than, say, my database server.
As to slowing things down, the EDL engine has finite resources, of
course. So the best practice would be to schedule the cloning to occur
during the [insert wishful thinking here] time when the EDL was not busy
accepting new backups.
Thanks for this dialogue!
tl
-----Original Message-----
From: EMC NetWorker discussion [mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU] On
Behalf Of W. Curtis Preston
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 2:16 AM
To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
Subject: Re: [Networker] Clone from EDL to library
Terry,
I'm honestly trying to figure out how this is better. It's better in
that
you don't need a separate storage node, but how ELSE is it better? He's
still got to figure out how to tell NW to do all this; the queries and
commands are all the same.
And as to it being better... Here's my thought, PLEASE tell me what I
don't
understand. The VTL is still bringing the data into one I/O path and
out
another. In addition to the load this places on the CPU, you add the
load
of the storage node processing. Doesn't this add additional load to the
VTL
and inevitably slow things down?
-----Original Message-----
From: EMC NetWorker discussion [mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU] On
Behalf Of Terry Lemons
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:38 PM
To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
Subject: Re: [Networker] Clone from EDL to library
Hi
One option you can consider is using the EDL NetWorker embedded storage
node option. This would be an additional purchase, but would allow the
EDL itself to read from the VTL and clone to the physical tape library.
This is better than reading the data back into your storage node and
writing the data to the physical tape library - the embedded storage
node option does all of the cloning work.
tl
-----Original Message-----
From: EMC NetWorker discussion [mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU] On
Behalf Of Gordon
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:38 AM
To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
Subject: [Networker] Clone from EDL to library
What is the best way to do this?
I have all backup pools run in a VTL and I need 2 clones on real tape
every day, the first copy stay in the same building in a fire proof
safe-deposit box, the second copy is transported daily to another safe
location.
I need to make today a clon of all yesterday savesets twice, each ones
on a diferent clone pool. To do that I make this mminfo query, I like to
know your opinion about this. Thanks!
mminfo -q 'savetime>=yesterday 00:00:00, savetime<=23:59:59 yesterday ,
pool=filesystemW, pool=filesystemP, pool=Default, pool=filesystemL,
!incomplete, !suspect' -r "volume, barcode, volid, ssid, cloneid, name,
client, copies"|awk '{print $4 "/" $5}'|tail +2>ssid.cloneid
nsrclone -S -f ssid.cloneid -b Copy1
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