In regard to: Re: [Networker] Other back-up products besides NetWorker,...:

Absolutely.  I'm coming from a world where I've written HUNDREDS of
script for backup products over the years.  I can remember when I
implemented NBU for a large software company and had to write 150 custom
scripts for them to make it do what they wanted.  That was 9 years ago.
Now there are very few shops where I can't implement NBU without custom
scripts.  That is definitely not the case with NW.  It's scheduling
limitations and it's inability to automate tape copying in large
environments forces me to script.

The tape copying issue I understand.  You know a lot more about how
other products do scheduling than I do.  Can you highlight the advantages
of how other products do it, and where NetWorker could specifically
improve?  I would love to know what I'm missing, and I think it's really
useful to get good concrete examples of where NetWorker is deficient.

Remember also that the world is becoming more and more Windowsy.  And
Windows people don't like/don't know scripting anywhere near as much as
the Unix folk.  It's just a fact of life.

I'll concede the second point, and I think Windows has made some
significant improvements (especially at the enterprise level) in the past
few years.  I think Linux has made some significant inroads in the
enterprise too, though.  Not every enterprise looks more Windowsy than it
did five years ago.  It wouldn't surprise me a bit if there's a big
disparity between the corporate world and academia and government in the
windows vs. Unix/Linux enterprise shop.

If you take your two points together and apply them to NetWorker, it
sounds to me like the end result is "if you're a Windows shop, you
shouldn't choose NetWorker".  Would you agree?

What's the problem with scripts if you know how to write them?  They
cost money.  A lot of people think of them as free, but they are NOT.
You have write them (cost).  You have to update them when you upgrade NW
(cost).  You have to debug them when they don't work (cost).  You have
to add features to them as people's needs change and your bosses and
customers change (cost).

Custom scripts are one of the biggest impediments large companies have
to change.  They don't want to update NW/NBU because they don't want to
debug all their scripts.  The backup guy will always be the backup guy
because to lose him/her or move him/her somewhere else would mean
someone else will have to pick up that code -- and it NEVER works right
after they leave.  I push all my clients to avoid scripting whenever
possible, so a product's ability to support their requirements without
writing code is paramount in my choice for a backup product.

I see where you're coming from and I think there's some wisdom in what
you're saying, but if given the choice between the three products

- Product A - does everything I currently need via a GUI (or "built in")
  AND has extensibility built in via an API or scripting capability

- Product B - does some of what I currently need via a GUI AND has
  extensibility built in via an API or scripting capability

- Product C - does most of what I currently need via a GUI but has
  no scripting capability or extensibility

Product C would definitely be my last choice.  I don't care if it meets
my needs today, it also needs to be able to meet my needs tomorrow and
next year.  If you don't have some kind of extensibility at least
available (even if you hope to never have to use it), you are at the
complete and utter mercy of the software vendor to implement the features
you need in your environment, when you need them.  I've been there time
and time again with other products, and it's not a good place to be.

If price isn't a determinant between Product A and Product B, then I would
clearly choose Product A.

It sounds to me like a lot of people feel NetWorker is "Product B".  ;-)

Tim
--
Tim Mooney                                             Tim.Mooney AT ndsu DOT 
edu
Enterprise Computing & Infrastructure                  701-231-1076 (Voice)
Room 242-J6, IACC Building                             701-231-8541 (Fax)
North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 58105-5164

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