Networker

Re: [Networker] Networker and Data Domain

2008-05-12 14:31:52
Subject: Re: [Networker] Networker and Data Domain
From: David Dulek <ddulek AT FASTENAL DOT COM>
To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:28:20 -0500
Hopefully, the Product and Development managers take notice that
staging/cloning to tape is important if the two are going to be sold
together successful.  I know the sales tactic, currently, is to convince
you that tape is "evil".


On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 11:17 -0700, Jonathan Loran wrote:
> 
> Thanks David.  I can get a steep discount on the price being an EDU
> site.  (I know, it's not fair, but we are also poor, so it evens out.)
> Otherwise that would be a killer out of the gate.  The thing that I'm
> most worried about is the CPU intensive bit.  Some of our clients are
> quite old and may not have the juice to run Avamar.  Also sorry to
> hear you can't stage to tape.  That also is a problem for our off site
> scheme.  I guess EMC wants you to buy two of everything.  A bit of a
> racket.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jon
> 
> David Dulek wrote: 
> > I have just completed a POC for Avamar.
> > 
> > You thought that the Data Domain was expensive get a price on Avamar. :)
> > 
> > In order to do the 15 TB capacity that I have on my 580, I would have to 
> > buy 
> > 9x2U servers (with 6x1TB drives, that is 8 x 2T servers with a hot spare 
> > server) and a 1U server (control station).  If I want to replicate to the 
> > other DC, double that.  Now add the EMC software licensing.  :)
> > 
> > It seems to work including the integration into the NetWorker tools and it 
> > is 
> > very easy to setup within NetWorker.
> > 
> > Negatives:
> > No module support.
> > No way to do D2D2T without going to a different disk target.  (You have to 
> > configure two sets of backups.  One for Avamar and disk only and one for 
> > disk 
> > that will go to tape.)
> > Although the client licensing on the Avamar has gone away you still have to 
> > pay for the NetWorker Client license.
> > Very CPU intensive.
> > /nsr has to be big enough on all clients to save the "caches".  ( I ran "/" 
> > out of space on one of the test linux clients. )
> > 
> > Positives:
> > Impressive compress and network savings.
> > 
> > Since I already have a Data Domain infrastructure to handle the modules 
> > backups, this is something I am still considering.
> > 
> > I am not sure if I am OK with running two backups per client per day that I 
> > want on tape and the Avamar grid.
> > 
> > 
> > On Saturday 10 May 2008, Jonathan Loran wrote:
> >   
> > > Hi Conrad and list:
> > > 
> > > We investigated Data Domain, and we did a test of a DD200 when it first
> > > came out, 3 or so years back.  Was very impressed with the speed and
> > > somewhat impressed with the dedupe ratio.  However, it was way to
> > > expensive for our UC budget.
> > > 
> > > More to my point: we are interested in investigating Avamar, which is
> > > integrated into Networker 7.4.2.  It has in interesting implementation
> > > where the data duplication is discovered on the client side, such that
> > > the Avamar server keeps a hash of stored checksums, and the client
> > > queries the server as to whether the data block already exists on the
> > > server.  If not, the data is sent with the checksum, if so, only the
> > > next checksum needs to be sent.  This has the benefit of potentially
> > > dramatically reducing network traffic.
> > > 
> > > I'm wondering if anyone on the list has experience with EMC Avamar?  It
> > > would be great to hear some non-biased reviews before I proceed.
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > > Jon
> > > 
> > > Macina, Conrad wrote:
> > >     
> > > > Hi, Kevin,
> > > > 
> > > > Leaving aside for at least a moment the discussion of vendors and spam,
> > > > I'm very interested in what you receive from your query about Data
> > > > Domain and possibly other dedupe vendors. I suspect other list members
> > > > will be as well. When you're done with your investigation, I wonder if
> > > > you could you please post a summary of your findings to the list?
> > > > 
> > > > One finding I'm particularly interested in: is it properly spelled
> > > > "dedupe" or "dedup"? :^)
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks!
> > > > 
> > > > Conrad Macina
> > > > Pfizer, Inc.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Kevin Malone [mailto:kcmalone AT SALISBURY DOT EDU]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:01 PM
> > > > Subject: Networker and Data Domain
> > > > 
> > > > If there is anyone out there who is using a Data Domain dedupe solution
> > > > with Networker and would be willing to have a conversation (good or bad)
> > > > about it with me, I would be appreciative.
> > > > 
> > > > We are looking at dedupe solutions and I am not endorsing any at this
> > > > point, but that is one that we have come across.
> > > > 
> > > > You can send me a private e-mail so as not to clog up the listserv.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Kevin
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Kevin Malone
> > > > Network Administrator
> > > > Salisbury University
> > > > Information Technology  FH297
> > > > kcmalone AT salisbury DOT edu
> > > > 410-543-6298
> > > > 
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> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> -     _____/     _____/      /           - Jonathan Loran -           -
> -    /          /           /                IT Manager               -
> -  _____  /   _____  /     /     Space Sciences Laboratory, UC Berkeley
> -        /          /     /      (510) 643-5146 jloran AT ssl.berkeley DOT edu
> - ______/    ______/    ______/           AST:7731^29u18e3
>                                  
> 

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