On Mon, 29 May 2006, Ali wrote:
A> I think you should contact the support and report this as a bug or RFE.
A> I am pretty sure their developers can easily fix it if reported via
A> tech Support. If I am not wrong, that is the standard procedure with
A> every vendor in the industry.
It is understandable that trained monkeys act as a firewall to level2/3
support and development lead. However, the problem with networker support
is that obvious problems with the code rarely seem to get through to those
who need to hear about it. And if it does, we never get a notice about it.
They always say things similar to "wait for the next release" or nothing
at all, and just say "upgrade to the latest jumbo patch" as soon as one is
released. Or something else that comform with the "There's always a bigger
loophole" policy. We're sick and tired of beta-testing their software, so
no we're not going to be on the weekly build of networker.
Here's a good example:
When we had CDI crashing problems on our Linux storage node (Search the
list archives for more on that), we were running networker 7.2.1. 7.2.1
was 32-bit only for Linux x86, but we were running SLES9 on x64, which was
not supported. When 7.3 was released, we were told to upgrade to it, since
SLES9 wasn't supported either with 7.2.1 . So we did upgrade, stupid as we
were, and ran into worse problems than the CDI problem. But the CDI
crashing problem was still present. The response we received now was that
linux kernel 2.6 was not supported. However, SLES9 is ONLY shipped with
kernel 2.6 as the standard kernel, and there's NO official 2.4 kernel
availables for SLES9. After a week or two, they decided that they had to
bite the bullet and accept the official kernel as a supported version. So
far so good. However, we have a SpectraLogic T950 tape library, with
SAIT-1 drives. According to the support matrix, the SpectraLogic T950
library and SAIT-1 drives are both supported, but not as a combination
(which is insane in itself!). Thus they told us to fuck off based on this
"un-supported configuration" instead. At this point we gave up. The
problem still remains.
Our own analysis shows that the crashing occurs as a kernel oops in the
linux kernel st subsystem, so it might not be a networker problem.
However, since SLES9 is supposed to be supported by networker 7.3, EMC
development should have the responsibility to reproduce the bug, and then
talk to Novell about it. This is also what Novell tech support suggested.
We have more examples similar to this, for instance the one with that
FQDN-only clients gradually stopped working in the networker 7 series, and
the response we received was slow and uninformative. After months of
nagging, they finally told us that this was not a bug, but rather the
expected behavior, and we should submit and RFE. And RFE that we never
received any response/feedback on.
My conclusion is that paying for EMC support on networker is like paying
for air or dotcom stock in March 2000. We will seriously consider to only
pay for Update Service in the future, as EMC networker is VERY expensive
and VERY bad. If I compare this to several other tech supports, for
instance Cisco TAC and Qlogics EMEA support, the difference is astronomic.
I'll also take this opportunity and comment the original email as well:
A> -----Original Message-----
A> From: Legato NetWorker discussion [mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT
EDU]
A> On Behalf Of Albert Eddie Contractor AFRPA CIO/IT
A> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:46 PM
A> To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
A> Subject: [I] [Networker] EMC Employees?
A> Bigger Issue:
A> Go into EMC via the web browser leave feedback In plain English I type:
A> Could I have the name, Email or phone number to the Product Manager For
A> Networker for Windows.
A>
A> The person responding referred me to Tech Support.
A> I reply back telling her I do not need tech support.
A> I am seeking to speak with Product Manager.
About what? A sorting bug? C'mon, if everyone would act like you they'd
get no work done.
A> She gets huffy includes the support website and then commences to
A> telling me how to use the tech support interface.
That was nice of her. I would just tell you to fuck off and hang up. :)
A> I then (probably not in my best mood/action) asked her if English were
A> her first language, because I thought I was quite clear on my request.
A> Her supervisor calls me, tells me she can't believe how rude I am.
I wonder why..
A> I laughed and asked her if SHE knew the name or contact info for Product
A> development for Networker for Windows? She tried to refer me to TECH
A> SUPPORT.
Again, I wonder why.. :)
A> Here is a HINT EMC - Sigma Six Management Techniques. Maybe consider a
A> book called THE MACHINE which discusses how you allow your customers
A> access to the people in development remove the red tape and get things
A> FIXED.
That only works with small development teams, where employees know much
about most parts of the product, and where the user base is small and has
some clue in general. With networker, I don't think this is true, not with
the developers, nor with the user base.
A> Sure my problem was not GREAT, but can you imagine what it must be like
A> to work there?
A>
A> In closing: PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT;
A> WHO ARE YOU?
A> WHERE ARE YOU?
A> DO YOU EXIST?
I wonder that too, but not due to the same reason as you. :)
A> While I am on my RANT let me close with this as an American going up>:
A>
A> I am not opposed to foreign (to me) support personnel. What I am opposed
A> to is "personnel" who are not able to communicate effectively with the
A> corporate customer in the customer's native tongue.
Haha, if I would rant about that, I wouldn't get any sympathy, and
certainly no adequate tech support. Swedish is my first languare.
A> If I were working in Mexico, I would be expected to speak Spanish, if in
A> parts of Canada, I would be expected no REQUIRED to speak French. I
A> don't think it is too much to ask that the person speaking with me be
A> able to speak English.
A>
A> DISCLAIMER: I have NEVER had a speaking problem with EMC Networker Tech
A> Support. Quite the contrary their support has been exemplary! Just this
A> one problem with email response team employee.
My opinion is that IT-related and most business related communication
should be able to be performed in english, at least if you have customers
from several countries or people who are of different nationalities. And
in your case, I don't think she had a problem with English, I think the
problem was you. :)
Anyway, I am drifting far away in Off-topic land, and I should probably go
to the office instead of ranting here. :)
//Oscar
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