Networker

Re: [Networker] ndmp cloning

2005-09-25 08:52:20
Subject: Re: [Networker] ndmp cloning
From: Dave Gold - News <dave2 AT CAMBRIDGECOMPUTER DOT COM>
To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:48:02 -0400
Mike,
 
Your question is licensing--so the answer is yes. To have the NDMP data all 
backed up to locally attached tape drives on the NetApps ("3-party ndmp"), you 
need the appopriate NetWorker NDMP license. 
 
Keep in mind that you would need a storage node license if you were to need to 
increase your server parallelism or number of tape drives, but that is a 
side-effect of the Storage Node license, not a requirement for NDMP.
 
In response to Terry, NDMP "Cloning" is part of the "Tape to Tape copy" portion 
of the NDMP 4 specification. You are correct, of course, in saying that the 
"cloning" portion isn't really defined in the spec--that is up to the NDMP 
Client (NetWorker Server) in how to implement and track.
 
Also, the NDMP device is *effectively* a storage node, but not actually in 
terms of NetWorker. Remember that NDMP is actually a "local" device on the 
NetWorker server rerouted via NDMP to a remote system. So it is an "NDMP 
Storage Node", but not an actual "Storage Node". (Think of it like this--there 
is no NetWorker software on it, so it can't be a storage node)
 
Michael, I didn't understand your comment about caching with SnapImage, but 
going with the assumption that it was just being used as an NDMP Tape Server, 
you need to keep the following in mind with using the equivalent/replacement 
NDMP Tape Server built into NetWorker 7.2.
1. If you are doing backups of the NetApp direct to tape, then SnapImage and 
the 7.2 NDMP Tape Server is irrelevent. You simply won't be using that 
functionality--those features are *only* used if you want to back up NDMP data 
over the LAN.
2. If you backed up to a tape drive on the backup server controlled by 
SnapImage, you have to restore using it. SnapImage and the 7.2 NDMP Tape Server 
are functionally similar, but not equivalent--I'm specifically thinking that if 
SnapImage (working as an NDMP Tape Server) wrote to a tape, then you won't be 
able to restore that data with 7.2 NDMP Tape Server feature.
3. The difference between SnapImage as an NDMP Tape Server and the built in 7.2 
NDMP Tape server is the following:
--SnapImage is NDMP 3. No cloning, no DAR. 7.2.1 NDMP Tape Server supports both 
(7.2 doesn't include DAR) 
--Cloning with 7.2 NDMP Tape Server doesn't go back to the NDMP Data Server 
(the NetApp), it stays local to the backup server, and looks and feels like a 
normal clone.
--SnapImage requires a dedicated tape drive only for its use, and writes in a 
different format encoded into NetWorker OTF ("Open Tape Format"). 7.2 NDMP Tape 
Server just writes the NDMP data onto normal Networker tapes, no dedicated 
drives or special configuration required.
 
So the answer to your question of whether you can remove snapimage is: "If you 
are backing up directly to tape drives the NetApp sees, you don't need 
SnapImage to back up. If you want to restore data you backed up over the LAN to 
the backup server via a SnapImage managed tape drive, you'll need to leave it 
there to be able to restore."
 
For licensing--if you have 4 drives on the netapp and four on the backup 
server, you need to have an NDMP license, which you should already have.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Dave
 
------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:57:16 -0400
From:    Terry Lemons <lemons_terry AT EMC DOT COM>
Subject: Re: NDMP Cloning

Hi Mike

I notice that you didn't get an answer, so I'll try one here, at least to
start some discussion.

I'm assuming that your Solaris version is a recent one (8 or 9).

So, if I'm understanding this, you want to:

- connect the library autochanger device to your Solaris NetWorker server
system
- connect four tape drives to your Solaris NetWorker server system
- connect four tape drives to your NetApp filer

First, I don't think an NDMP device can be a storage node.
Second, I took a quick search through the NDMP 3 or 4 specifications, and I
didn't find clone to be a supported feature.  So, I'm not sure if the NDMP
spec itself supports the cloning/replication of media.  If this isn't
supported natively by a NDMP system, then something (like a storage node)
must provide that feature.

But, since every NetWorker server is also a storage node, you could have the
NetWorker server perform the cloning, without needing to buy a storage node
license.

Hope this helps the discussion along.
tl

Terry Lemons
CLARiiON Appliance Engineering
CLARiiON Application Solutions Integration
EMC²
where information lives
4400 Computer Drive, MS D239
Westboro MA 01580
Phone: 508 898 7312
Email: Lemons_Terry AT emc DOT com

-----Original Message-----
From: Legato NetWorker discussion [mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU] 
On
Behalf Of Hawkins, Michael
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:39 PM
To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
Subject: [Networker] NDMP Cloning

Presently we are running 7.1.3 on a Solaris server, Library is attached
via Fiber Bridge to the server.  We want to make the 4 of our 8 LTO's
drives "directly attached" to our 4 netapp filers.  Can we remove the
snapimage module [we only use it for the NDMP transport, no caching at
all]  upgrade to 7.2 and use the new features of 7.2 to do our cloning
without needing to purchase storage nodes for the filers? 



Honestly this whole thing has become such of a nightmare its ridiculous.
3 weeks ago we had a Legato engineer come out [Not a legato engineer but
legato trained]  and told us that we needed storage nodes and DDS to
make this work.  Just trying to filter through some truth here. 





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