ADSM-L

Re: [ADSM-L] Do you perform Windows SYSTEMSTATE backups?

2012-11-12 10:59:07
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Do you perform Windows SYSTEMSTATE backups?
From: Rick Harderwijk <rick.harderwijk AT GMAIL DOT COM>
To: ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:21:48 +0100
Hi all,

Just wanted to let you all know we recently performed a DR test, restoring
numerous Windows 2003 and 2008 R2 servers, including Windows 2008 R2
clustered machines, all without any real problems. We used server version
5.4.3.0 and client version 5.5.3.3. Ofcourse there were some tricks to do
when restoring to slightly different hardware, but that's not really TSM
related...

Cheers,

Rick

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Rick Harderwijk <rick.harderwijk AT gmail DOT 
com
> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am confused. We had this long discussion on backing up system state, and
> that for some it was working well, while others strongly forbid it. We also
> concluded that the system state backup for W2k8R2 is very large.
>
> Just going over the client logs on a w2k8r2 machine (running client
> 5.5.3.3), and I noticed a backup in the weekend was only 600Mb. Not much
> changed on the server, but still, I would expect several GBs for the system
> state backup.
>
> To be sure, I checked another w2k8r2 machine, and the same behaviour there.
>
> What's happened to the large system states?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 4:13 AM, Prather, Wanda <Wanda.Prather AT icfi DOT 
> com>wrote:
>
>> There is a known problem with TSM 5.5 servers backing up Win2K8
>> systemstate from 6.2.0+ clients.  (5.5 servers with 5.5 clients don't have
>> the problem; V6 servers with 5.5 clients don't have the problem.  )
>>
>> Starting at 6.2.0, the backup client tries by default to do a "true
>> incremental" of systemstate, which means it has to keep track of which
>> pieces of the system state get changed and link them together in case you
>> do a systemstate restore.
>>
>> The resulting pointers are complex enough that it pretty much gets the
>> 5.5 server tangled in its underwear, and a simple systemstate backup can
>> bring the server to its knees if it's heavily used.  (First symptom we saw,
>> was that the Win2K8 clients that had been upgraded from 5.5 to 6.2 would
>> take hours to back up systemstate if the server was busy doing backup
>> stgpool or something else that required heavy use of the DB.)
>>
>> Two solutions:
>>
>> a) move the client to a V6 server, poof the problem goes away
>>
>> b) there is a new option (not in the manual) called
>> systemstatebackupmethod; if you set SYSTEMSTATEBACKUPMETHOD FULL, the
>> systemstate backup is done like it used to be in the 5.5 client (not as a
>> "true incremental") and you won't have the problem, you'll just have the
>> huge Win2K8 systemstate backup as usual.
>>
>> Here's the info:
>>
>> http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg21470662&myns=swgtiv&mynp=OCSSGSG7&mync=E
>> http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg1IC80331
>>
>> w
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU] On Behalf 
>> Of
>> Rick Harderwijk
>> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 3:24 AM
>> To: ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
>> Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Do you perform Windows SYSTEMSTATE backups?
>>
>> Roger,
>>
>> We do not backup desktop clients, but we do have working system state
>> backups from servers (2000,2003, 2003R2, 2008, 2008R2) with server version
>> 5.4.3.0 and various clientversions (though we did need to upgrade the
>> clients on the 2008 family of servers to  5.5.3.3 - but then again, we do
>> the DR trainings for a reason). We have not seen the issues you report in
>> backing up our servers.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Grigori Solonovitch <
>> Grigori.Solonovitch AT ahliunited DOT com> wrote:
>>
>> > I am very sorry, but I am a little bit confused by discussion about
>> > SYSTEMSTATE backup. We are backing up SYSTEMSTATE for Windows 2003
>> > (all
>> > editions) and Windows 2008 (all editions) with the latest patches and
>> > VSS hot fixes without any problems (TSM Client 6.2.4.0 and TSM Server
>> 5.5.6).
>> > We have restored successfully a few servers after real Windows
>> > disaster. In addition, we are testing Windows image restores
>> > periodically. As a small problem I can declare only huge number of
>> > files in Windows 2008 SYSTEMSTATE. It delays incremental backups
>> > checking all files without backing up them (finally must of the files
>> > are re-assigned with message like " ANS4085I Assigned '82817' objects
>> > from previous systemstate backup to the new systemstate backup.")
>> >
>> > Grigori G. Solonovitch
>> > Senior Technical Architect  Ahli United Bank Kuwait
>> > www.ahliunited.com.kw
>> >
>> > Please consider the environment before printing this E-mail
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU] On 
>> > Behalf
>> > Of Roger Deschner
>> > Sent: 26 07 2012 8:54 AM
>> > To: ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
>> > Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Do you perform Windows SYSTEMSTATE backups?
>> >
>> > We do not back up the Windows System State, and I run a program to
>> > find them, delete them, and change the cloptset for offending nodes to
>> > one that forbids it. The problem started with Vista, and it hit us
>> > real hard. It's a problem that keeps on giving, as people gradually
>> > upgrade from XP to Win7 and from Server 2003 to Server 2008.
>> >
>> > A pet peeve of mine in this regard is that XP calls it "System
>> > Object", and TSM very inflexibly enforces this semantic detail. If you
>> > assign a
>> > Vista+ node to a cloptset that contains DOMAIN -SYSTEMOBJECT you get a
>> > fatal error and no backup. If you assign an XP node to a cloptset that
>> > contains DOMAIN -SYSTEMSTATE you also get a fatal error. TSM should
>> > accept SYSTEMSTATE and SYSTEMOBJECT as aliases for one another. This
>> > would save me a ***___HUGE___*** amount of time and effort.
>> >
>> > The difference in whether or not you can handle it, is the TSM server
>> > version, as well as the client version. In general, neither V5 servers
>> > nor
>> > V5 clients can handle System State backup, while V6.2.3+ servers can
>> > deal with it reasonably well if the client is also V6.2.3+. This is
>> > IBM's recommendation.
>> >
>> > We have never found the System Object/State backup to be useful for a
>> > desktop node restore. OTOH if the node is a server, we have started to
>> > back up the System State to our new V6.2.3 server using V6.2.4+ clients.
>> > We continue to absolutely forbid System State backups on our old V5.5
>> > servers. They simply cannot handle it.
>> >
>> > Roger Deschner      University of Illinois at Chicago
>> rogerd AT uic DOT edu
>> > "My business, is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves to
>> > fact, not to try and make facts harmonize with my aspirations."
>> > -- Thomas Huxley, 1860
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, 25 Jul 2012, Zoltan Forray wrote:
>> >
>> > >We are constantly seeing problems with Windows VSS and systemstate
>> > >backups.  The recent "black Tuesday" updates has causes numerous
>> > >Windows servers to start having backup problem where they previously
>> > >worked just fine.
>> > >
>> > >In most cases they require the VSS hotfixes/fixpacks, etc.  The
>> > >quickest fix is to simply stop systemstate backups since VSS patches
>> > >usually require reboots.
>> > >
>> > >I bought up the issue of "have we ever restored the systemstate or
>> > >any objects within" and the response was "No, Never".
>> > >
>> > >So I am wondering, how many folks here who backup Windows servers,
>> > >include SYSTEMSTATE backups and why?
>> > >
>> > >--
>> > >*Zoltan Forray*
>> > >TSM Software & Hardware Administrator Virginia Commonwealth
>> > >University UCC/Office of Technology Services zforray AT vcu DOT edu -
>> > >804-828-4807 Don't be a phishing victim - VCU and other reputable
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>> > >
>> >
>> >
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>

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