Response well taken. Warts and halitosis lol! =)
Look I don't claim to be the do all and end all to fairness but posts like that
one are needless flames against an OS I happen to support. Its one thing if
there's a critical technote that you'd like to share with the group or if you
find a technote that you don't understand that might pertain to you, but what
the OP boiled down too was, look at this Windows related technote I found
posted a few days ago, doesn't windows blow? That's just unnecessary.
I'm all for debate... I love it. You want to talk about SCSI vs. SATA vs. SAS
I'll chat with you all day about hardware and practical limitations. You wana
talk about Windows Versus Solaris or Redhat versus Suse I'm all for intelligent
conversation on the matter, but writing entire posts on "lookie here, Windows
sucks" is simply inappropriate.
I've created enterprise deployment packages (MSIs) using ORCA, AdminStudio and
WISE installer for two Fortune 500 companies, and I can tell you from
experience that if the MSI repairs the install because of a missing .pdf then
that's because that's how Symantec put the MSI together. That .pdf is just as
critical as the .exe, which has got nothing to do with Microsoft or Msiexec,
its got to do with Symantec's build. If this is the case has anyone reported
it to Symantec? What a silly bug that can be easily fixed!
What it boils down to for me is common courtesy and respect. Respect for
working professionals just like you who work in data centers just like yours
who support systems with massive complexity on a limited budget and with half
the staff they need to do it properly. I think its great that anyone in our
shoes finds the time to respond to forum requests from people half a world away
and I think we all deserve better than misguided posts about your OS sucks, or
your hardware sucks etc...
I'm sorry for the flame. Just my .02
-Jonathan
________________________________
From: Jeff Lightner [mailto:jlightner at water.com]
Sent: Mon 4/30/2007 7:50 PM
To: Curtis Preston; Martin, Jonathan; veritas-bu at mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] New technote for Windows NetBackup Masters
Point of information:
It was not I that did the flame - it was Martin, Jonathan.
Perhaps I should have stayed out of it but I couldn't resist responding
with what I thought was a humorous (ok, some might say, smart@$$) reply.
:D
-----Original Message-----
From: Curtis Preston [mailto:cpreston at glasshouse.com]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 7:07 PM
To: Jeff Lightner; Martin, Jonathan (Contractor);
veritas-bu at mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] New technote for Windows NetBackup Masters
Wow, Jeff... I didn't see anything aimed at anyone personally until
your message. I saw my message that says I don't think Windows systems
should be master or media servers, and I stand by that with one caveat
(below). I saw a message pointing out a feature that had a very
negative side effect. Then I saw your flame back to the mean Unix
people for pointing out this side effect, and it even included a comment
aimed at me personally.
At the risk of completely wasting my time, I will clarify these two
messages (only one of which came from me).
1. Unix master & media servers should be on Unix/Linux
I tell everyone that if they're a mixed Unix/Windows shop, their master
servers should be on Unix/Linux. And frankly, I believe they should be
on Linux. If they're an ALL Windows shop, then they should stay on
Windows. But if they grok Unix, then you can do far more with a
Unix/Linux media server than you can with a Windows one.
This isn't so much of an indictment against Windows as it is an
acknowledgment that the predominance of NBU customers use Unix/Linux
masters, and that most of the tools that come out of this user community
will be written with an assumption that they will be used on Unix/Linux.
(The admin that wrote the question, for example, could just use the
scripts he/she was given.)
If you want to "use what works," then use perl or shell tools. They're
easily available on this list, they're easily supported by people on
this list when they have a minor problem, and they really do the job.
If you can't use them on a Unix/Linux server where they started, then
you should do what I suggested to him and install Perl on Windows. I
really doubt he's going to find someone on this list who can help him do
with vbscript.
And, yes, without going into it here, I see a number of technical
advantages of Unix/Linux master media media servers over Windows media
servers. Here's just a few off the top of my head:
* Raw device access for disks and tapes
* tape library and tape drive manipulation from the command line when
things are broken in netbackup
* Process lists that are long, easy to read
* bpgp -- it's my favorite, unadvertised tool in NetBackup, and it's not
available in Windows NBU
* don't have to install security patches every other day and often
reboot in order to install them
* don't have to run virus software on my backup server
What advantages do Windows NBU servers have over Unix NBU servers?
Other than familiarity for an all-Windows shop, I can't think of any.
How is this disrespect to Windows admins?
2. This "feature" of automatically reinstalling things is a problem
All the person did was send a message that pointed out a feature of
Windows that could cause your backups to shut down without any notice.
While I agree that the reinstall of critical files is a nice idea, if it
causes my backups to shutdown without any notice to me, that's NOT a
good idea. I can't believe that your post basically defends this
practice.
I'm sorry you're not going to buy my book. It's actually got a lot of
really cool tools for Windows folks in there. I explain how to backup
Exchange, SQL Server, and do bare metal recovery of Windows -- all
without buying a single commercial backup software product.
---
W. Curtis Preston
Author of O'Reilly's Backup & Recovery and Using SANs and NAS
VP Data Protection
GlassHouse Technologies
-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff
Lightner
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 2:17 PM
To: Martin, Jonathan (Contractor); veritas-bu at mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] New technote for Windows NetBackup Masters
Everyone knows M$ Windoze causes warts, premature births and halitosis.
:p
-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Martin,
Jonathan (Contractor)
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:59 PM
To: veritas-bu at mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] New technote for Windows NetBackup Masters
Ok.. I was going to reserve comment but after those two comments bump
that...
<<<INCOMING SARCASM - FLAME ON>>>
Synopsis of Technote - If you remove any of the critical Netbackup files
from Drive:\Program Files\Veritas when you run the Admin Gui on the
Netbackup Server, Windows Installer is (::ghasp / horrified look::)
going to try and put them back.
I mean, seriously, what is Microsoft thinking trying to put application
critical executables back into their proper places? What kind of a
drunken imbecile of an admin wants their applications where they belong?
And even if we thought this was a good thing, we certainly wouldn't want
to call it a feature!? And surely Symantec should realize a patch to
fix this undesirable good idea!
Thank you very much for pointing this out, I appreciate the effort. I
think its great that you Xnix guys lob whatever bit of windows
misunderstanding across the fence you can find to potentially hit us on
the head with. We after all as Windows admins aren't very smart, and
hitting us in the head with misunderstanding is certainly the best way
to educate us.
For the record: This is a feature of windows (go delete excel.exe and
try running excel and you will also find this "issue" present on non-nbu
machines too!) Once the msiexec (windows installer) is done replacing
the missing files NBU will function fine and your operations people at
2:00AM will continue sleeping as usual, calendar function fully
restored.
I really am APPALLED at the level of blatant disrespect thrown around on
this forum between Xnix and Windows admins. You should be ashamed. As
both an SCSA and MCSE who supports everthing from Windows NT and Solaris
2.6 to Windows Server 2003 and Redhat 4 I find your attitudes pathetic.
If you feel the need to make someone miserible, why not go complain to
your neighbor when his lawn gets over 3" high because I'd prefer this
forum remain clear for good natured assistance from Netbackup
Administrators and peers.
-Jonathan "I work with whatever makes you happy" Martin
PS: No I am not going to buy your book.
<<FLAME OFF>>
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