Re: [Networker] Centera Backup & Recovery Module Performance

Ah, I see now. It is an archive box... Well, in that case, how often do
you NEED to back it up? Or, more importantly, how often do you need to
do a full backup?

As it is just archive data, does it really matter if it takes a little
longer to restore and uses a few more tapes (as long as you can get the
data back)?

The data is going to grow (well, as far as the capacity of the box,
anyway) so you will probably need to work out a long term strategy for
protecting the data.

A new box is out of the question (I suppose a relatively cheap
alternative box (something like Nexsan SATABeast) is also out of the
question) so we (sorry, you) are left with little option but to make do
with what you have. You could be creative on the schedule to reduce the
required number of tapes for any restore. You may ant to do a full less
frequently (I think a year is pushing it a bit but a month shouldn't be
too bad). If it makes you feel more comfortable do a level 1 on the
weeks in between.

Before doing all that, though, I'd have one last look around to see if
there are any other reasons for the poor performance (metwork settings,
fibre settings, etc.) just in case there's a tweak available there.

If, at the end of all that, you still have a slow long running backup,
consider repurposing an old library just for that and let it tick away
all day and night as it pleases without impacting any of the other
backups (you mentioned the possibility of LTO4, that would leave an LTO3
drive free to do just this...)

There's a way round most problems... If you can't cure it, then change
it so you can live with it...

Regards
Bob

Bob Wood
Senior Technical Analyst

ITC - EMEAE London eHub
Chevron Limited
1 Westferry Circus, Canary Wharf
London, E14 4HA
Tel +44(0)20 7719 3885
Fax +44(0)20 7719 5101
woodr AT chevron DOT com

Chevron Limited. Registered in England and Wales (145197). Registered
office 1 Westferry Circus, Canary Wharf, London, England, E14 4HA


 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: EMC NetWorker discussion 
>[mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Huff
>Sent: 11 June 2007 12:20
>To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
>Subject: Re: [Networker] Centera Backup & Recovery Module Performance
>
>Eh?
>
>This is a Centera, not Celera (blame EMC for that one). The 
>Centera is a CAS (Content Addressable Storage). Think about it 
>like a big WORM drive.
>We archive email, IM, and transaction logs for compliance 
>reasons onto it. It's not a general purpose NAS/SAN.
>
>The client software EMCXtender and our custom applications use 
>the Centera API to put data on the Centera.  
>
>
>----
>Matthew Huff       | One Manhattanville Rd
>Dir of Operations  | Purchase, NY 10577
>OTA LLC            | Phone: 914-460-4039
>www.otaotr.com     | Fax: 914-460-4139   
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wood, R A (Bob) [mailto:WoodR AT chevron DOT com]
>Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 3:16 PM
>To: EMC NetWorker discussion; Matthew Huff
>Subject: RE: [Networker] Centera Backup & Recovery Module Performance
>
>What about the clients that have their data on the Centera, is 
>there any possibility there?
>
>Bob Wood
>Senior Technical Analyst
>
>ITC - EMEAE London eHub
>Chevron Limited
>1 Westferry Circus, Canary Wharf
>London, E14 4HA
>Tel +44(0)20 7719 3885
>Fax +44(0)20 7719 5101
>woodr AT chevron DOT com
>
>Chevron Limited. Registered in England and Wales (145197). 
>Registered office 1 Westferry Circus, Canary Wharf, London, 
>England, E14 4HA
>
>
> 
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: EMC NetWorker discussion
>>[mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Huff
>>Sent: 11 June 2007 09:33
>>To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
>>Subject: Re: [Networker] Centera Backup & Recovery Module Performance
>>
>>Here is a better diagram on how it works.
>>
>>
>>+-------------+
>>+   Legato    + ====>+
>>+  Networker  +      |
>>+   Server    +      | NDMP Protocol
>>+             +      |
>>+    CBRM     + <====+
>>+  Software   +                        +----------+
>>+             +                        +          +
>>+             +     Centera API        +  Centera +
>>+             + ====================>  +          +
>>+-------------+     Over TCP/IP        +----------+
>>
>>The problem is the Centera API is a single savestream so there isn't 
>>anything you can do to improve performance. You can't attach tape 
>>drives to the Centera for normal NDMP or even use DSA since 
>the Centera 
>>doesn't support NDMP itself, only through the CBRM software.
>>
>>
>>----
>>Matthew Huff       | One Manhattanville Rd
>>Dir of Operations  | Purchase, NY 10577
>>OTA LLC            | Phone: 914-460-4039
>>www.otaotr.com     | Fax: 914-460-4139   
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: EMC NetWorker discussion 
>>[mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Huff
>>Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:11 PM
>>To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
>>Subject: Re: [Networker] Centera Backup & Recovery Module Performance
>>
>>Unfortunetly, it's kinda a hack. The Centera doesn't support 
>>NDMP at all. What they developed is a NDMP tape server that 
>>runs on the same box as the legato server (it could be on 
>>another box, but doesn't help). The software pulls data from 
>>the Centera using their API and then sends it to the NDMP 
>>software. Their backup software doesn't support volumes or 
>>splitting in any fashion. It just starts a serial stream from 
>>the beginning and sends a single saveset until it finishes.
>>
>>I've opened cases repeatedly with EMC about this, and used our 
>>sales team to escalate it to the CBRM project manager. EMC 
>>position is that the CBRM was an afterthought, their main way 
>>of doing backups was through replication to a 2nd Centera. The 
>>Centera was originally targeted only for large enterprises 
>>that had offsites, etc and large IT budges. We bought it when 
>>they were targeted mid-market companies. They haven't updated 
>>the CBRM software in almost 2 years now and they don't seem to 
>>understand why it's an issue with us. They think we should 
>>just buy another Centera and replicate to it, or do full 
>>backups yearly. They really appear clueless why that isn't 
>>acceptable to us.
>>
>>
>>
>>----
>>Matthew Huff       | One Manhattanville Rd
>>Dir of Operations  | Purchase, NY 10577
>>OTA LLC            | Phone: 914-460-4039
>>www.otaotr.com     | Fax: 914-460-4139   
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: EMC NetWorker discussion 
>>[mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU] On Behalf Of Wood, R A (Bob)
>>Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 11:39 AM
>>To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
>>Subject: Re: [Networker] Centera Backup & Recovery Module Performance
>>
>>Sems like a pretty limited set of options given by EMC, that 
>>surprises me a bit since there must be some other options.
>>
>>Now, I don't know about CBRM module (I suspect it is a bit 
>>like NDMP is to Networker?). Options you may have are Split up 
>>the task in some way - can it be divided into volumes? 
>>Once you have discovered the method to split it up you can 
>>start to think about different options For instance, is it 
>>possible to have more than one CBRM session running at one 
>>time? (I understand that a single CBRM session can only supply 
>>one savestream - in that respect it is similar to NDMP - but 
>>you can have multiple NDMP sessions running in parallel) Or, 
>>maybe, run a full on one volume one week and another the 
>>following week with incremental/differential in between.
>>
>>There may be several ways to achieve your desired backup rate. 
>>Maybe backing up over the network may be an option? (once 
>>again, doesn't have to be all of it in one go)
>>
>>Without knowing much about the way you are using your 
>>equipment I can only offer vague pointers, but, hopefully, 
>>they give you some hope that there may be another way...
>>
>>Regards
>>Bob
>>
>>
>>Bob Wood
>>Senior Technical Analyst
>>
>>ITC - EMEAE London eHub
>>Chevron Limited
>>1 Westferry Circus, Canary Wharf
>>London, E14 4HA
>>Tel +44(0)20 7719 3885
>>Fax +44(0)20 7719 5101
>>woodr AT chevron DOT com
>>
>>Chevron Limited. Registered in England and Wales (145197). 
>>Registered office 1 Westferry Circus, Canary Wharf, London, 
>>England, E14 4HA
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: EMC NetWorker discussion
>>>[mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Huff
>>>Sent: 11 June 2007 08:09
>>>To: NETWORKER AT LISTSERV.TEMPLE DOT EDU
>>>Subject: [Networker] Centera Backup & Recovery Module Performance
>>>
>>>As our EMC Centera increases in usage, our backups have been taking 
>>>longer and longer. We do a full backup on Friday nights and 
>>>differentials during the week. The full backup is now taking over 20 
>>>hours during the weekend. Since the CBRM module only creates one 
>>>saveset stream the options are limited for tuning on the 
>Legato side. 
>>>The stream is unable to keep a single LTO-2 drive busy, so 
>>upgrading to 
>>>LT0-4/VTL or save_to_disk doesn't appear to be a viable option.
>>>
>>>EMC's has suggested to either: 1) Only do full backups yearly
>>>2) Buy a second Centera, create an offsite and do replication to it. 
>>>Since we find both suggestions laughable, and EMC has no 3rd option, 
>>>does anyone using CBRM have any suggestions?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----
>>>Matthew Huff       | One Manhattanville Rd
>>>Dir of Operations  | Purchase, NY 10577
>>>OTA LLC            | Phone: 914-460-4039
>>>www.otaotr.com     | Fax: 914-460-4139   
>>>
>>>To sign off this list, send email to
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>>>
>>
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>
>To sign off this list, send email to 
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