ADSM-L

Re: TSM 5.3 web gui

2006-03-08 02:37:21
Subject: Re: TSM 5.3 web gui
From: Roger Deschner <rogerd AT UIC DOT EDU>
To: ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:33:21 -0600
What's a Web Admin Client? Yet another thing to ignore.

No, seriously, I agree with Alan and Wanda. In looking at this
implementation, I am left to wonder, "What's in this for me?" Sounds
like putting it up is quite a bit harder than it is worth. If they want
to make something easier, a much more minimalist design would really be
better - something like AIX smit.

Good thing I've been ignoring these sluggish, cumbersome web GUI
thingamabobs all along - it's making my transition to 5.3 much easier.
Linemode never goes out of style!

Roger Deschner      University of Illinois at Chicago     rogerd AT uic DOT edu
"Give a man a computer program and you give him a headache, but teach
him to program computers and you give him the power to create headaches
for others for the rest of his life." -- R. B. Forest





On Tue, 7 Mar 2006, Rajesh Oak wrote:

>I heard in my last TSM user meet, (last june) that Tivoli was coming out with 
>a newer ISC Lite version, just for TSM. Does anyone knop when this is going to 
>see the light of the day?
>
>Rajesh
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Prather, Wanda" <Wanda.Prather AT JHUAPL DOT EDU>
>> To: ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
>> Subject: Re: TSM 5.3 web gui
>> Date:         Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:25:41 -0500
>>
>>
>> I agree - there are SOME things that were designed really well in the
>> AC.
>>
>> I've been VERY impressed that it finally is much easier for newbies to
>> create management classes. The library creation tool is also excellent,
>> and (with the exception of one mis-labelled option) the DRM and checkin
>> wizards are great for new users.  When I'm working with new admins who
>> aren't used to the old GUI, they don't seem to have any trouble or
>> complaints with the AC conceptually, just with the bugs (like the java
>> command line frequently doesn't work, and the screen jumps out of
>> position too often).
>>
>> On the other hand, putting a GOOD DESIGN on top of a BAD STRUCTURE was a
>> BAD PLAN.  Did any of those "I-WANT" statements specify "I WANT A TSM
>> FRONT END THAT REQUIRES WEBSPHERE AND A BIGGER HOST THAN I CURRENTLY
>> NEED TO RUN MY TSM SERVER?"
>> I Doooooo't think so!  It's like trying to stuff a hippo into a
>> perambulator.  It's like chartering a 60-seat chauferred bus to buy eggs
>> at the 7-11.  It's like donning a full moon-walk life-support suit to
>> clean the litter box.  It's like..well, better stop.
>>
>> And WHERE did this notion of "one consolidated front end" come from?
>> Who does it help?  In any site with more than 1 staff person, the
>> division of labor is that the Storage person uses all the storage
>> products, not just the Tivoli products;  the Security person uses all
>> the security products, not just the Tivoli security products, etc.  It
>> makes sense to drive all the Tivoli STORAGE products from one
>> (non-websphere) interface, but not "everything".
>>
>> On top of that, the product was clearly released before it was fully
>> cooked (telling new TSM users to use the command line for DRM was
>> absurd), and the original decision to tell people there would NOT be a
>> transition tool was ill-considered, arrogant, and as might be expected,
>> disastrous.  As are the continuing problems with packaging,
>> installation, and documentation.  The installation problems and the lack
>> of a useful command-line capability seem to be what frustrate
>> experienced TSM admins the most, not the AC design.
>>
>> In fact, I spoke at one point with someone who had participated in a
>> customer workshop to preview the ISC design.  He said "We all really
>> liked the design.  But they DIDN"T TELL US it was going to be so
>> topheavy and so slow and require Websphere".  Another case of how to get
>> bad results from surveys... but that's a different soapbox.
>>
>> At any rate, I don't think the Admin Center itself is the problem.  It's
>> what lurks beneath...
>>
>> My opinion and nobody else's..
>>
>> Wanda
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU] On Behalf 
>> Of
>> Allen S. Rout
>> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 10:21 AM
>> To: ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
>> Subject: Re: TSM 5.3 web gui
>>
>>
>> >> On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:28:06 -0500, Richard Mochnaczewski
>> <Richard.Mochnaczewski AT STANDARDLIFE DOT CA> said:
>>
>>
>> > I had some problems with the setup of the Admin Console. I placed a
>> > call with IBM, [...]
>>
>>
>> The ranting about the ISC was legion in Oxford, and clearly a source
>> of frustration for the IBMers there; there were many questions or
>> "I-want" type statements which were answered with "We're doing that in
>> the Admin Console".  It's clear that they've placed a lot of effort
>> and thought into the AC design.
>>
>> I'm starting to think that we, TSM admins, are just too varied a bunch
>> to have our needs met within the constraints of one such system and
>> the ideology that must be imposed with it.  Maybe IBM can just ditch
>> the GUI idea entirely, and leave the market to the 3rd party tools.
>> Or maybe they can ditch the idea that the GUI is 'full featured', and
>> deploy something intended to coddle folks who are never going to make
>> the effort, and omit the hard bits.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm in sympathy with the desire to web-ify many administrative aspects
>> of many IBM tools under a unified umbrella.  But the One Ring to Rule
>> Them All attitude has well-documented failure modes, and nobody wants
>> to be Sauron at the end.
>>
>> It gets worse when the One Ring is as (pardon me) shaky and
>> unmaintainable as Websphere.  We've had deep, deep _DEEP_ problems
>> with that product.  A low point was when a level 2 tech in all
>> seriousness told us he wasn't sure the product supported HTTP.
>>
>> No, really. I can't make that up.  Our tech replied that maybe they
>> should change the product name to just "Sphere".
>>
>> I've been through the AIX install of the ISC and AC on a disposable
>> LPAR several times now; even with a fresh clean box and support on the
>> line, we've not been able to get a working console up, which I find
>> more amusing than irritating, any more.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Allen S. Rout
>
>>
>
>
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