I don't stage, I clone from the Data Domain. The staging/cloning comment was
that the technology within NetWorker is the same and that functionality needs
to be there if I choose to do a combination of NetWorker and Avamar and
hopefully EMC is listening.
On Monday 12 May 2008, Francis Swasey wrote:
> I agree tape is evil (as I'm waiting for the report back to see why the
> LTO4 tape was cut in two in the LTO4 drive a month ago).
>
> Yet, I feel responsible to point out that you can't (or at least
> shouldn't) stage from a Data Domain to tape either. You can certainly
> clone, but NW's idea that it can stage a SS to tape and reclaim that
> amount of space goes out the window when DeDuplication is involved.
>
> I'd love to see staging get smarter and understand deduplication, but
> I'm afraid of what EMC might do with licensing that thing.
>
> Frank
>
> On 5/12/08 2:28 PM, David Dulek wrote:
> > Hopefully, the Product and Development managers take notice that
> > staging/cloning to tape is important if the two are going to be sold
> > together successful. I know the sales tactic, currently, is to convince
> > you that tape is "evil".
> >
> > On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 11:17 -0700, Jonathan Loran wrote:
> >> Thanks David. I can get a steep discount on the price being an EDU
> >> site. (I know, it's not fair, but we are also poor, so it evens out.)
> >> Otherwise that would be a killer out of the gate. The thing that I'm
> >> most worried about is the CPU intensive bit. Some of our clients are
> >> quite old and may not have the juice to run Avamar. Also sorry to
> >> hear you can't stage to tape. That also is a problem for our off site
> >> scheme. I guess EMC wants you to buy two of everything. A bit of a
> >> racket.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jon
> >>
> >> David Dulek wrote:
> >>> I have just completed a POC for Avamar.
> >>>
> >>> You thought that the Data Domain was expensive get a price on Avamar.
> >>> :)
> >>>
> >>> In order to do the 15 TB capacity that I have on my 580, I would have
> >>> to buy 9x2U servers (with 6x1TB drives, that is 8 x 2T servers with a
> >>> hot spare server) and a 1U server (control station). If I want to
> >>> replicate to the other DC, double that. Now add the EMC software
> >>> licensing. :)
> >>>
> >>> It seems to work including the integration into the NetWorker tools and
> >>> it is very easy to setup within NetWorker.
> >>>
> >>> Negatives:
> >>> No module support.
> >>> No way to do D2D2T without going to a different disk target. (You have
> >>> to configure two sets of backups. One for Avamar and disk only and one
> >>> for disk that will go to tape.)
> >>> Although the client licensing on the Avamar has gone away you still
> >>> have to pay for the NetWorker Client license.
> >>> Very CPU intensive.
> >>> /nsr has to be big enough on all clients to save the "caches". ( I ran
> >>> "/" out of space on one of the test linux clients. )
> >>>
> >>> Positives:
> >>> Impressive compress and network savings.
> >>>
> >>> Since I already have a Data Domain infrastructure to handle the modules
> >>> backups, this is something I am still considering.
> >>>
> >>> I am not sure if I am OK with running two backups per client per day
> >>> that I want on tape and the Avamar grid.
> >>>
> >>> On Saturday 10 May 2008, Jonathan Loran wrote:
> >>>> Hi Conrad and list:
> >>>>
> >>>> We investigated Data Domain, and we did a test of a DD200 when it
> >>>> first came out, 3 or so years back. Was very impressed with the speed
> >>>> and somewhat impressed with the dedupe ratio. However, it was way to
> >>>> expensive for our UC budget.
> >>>>
> >>>> More to my point: we are interested in investigating Avamar, which is
> >>>> integrated into Networker 7.4.2. It has in interesting implementation
> >>>> where the data duplication is discovered on the client side, such that
> >>>> the Avamar server keeps a hash of stored checksums, and the client
> >>>> queries the server as to whether the data block already exists on the
> >>>> server. If not, the data is sent with the checksum, if so, only the
> >>>> next checksum needs to be sent. This has the benefit of potentially
> >>>> dramatically reducing network traffic.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm wondering if anyone on the list has experience with EMC Avamar?
> >>>> It would be great to hear some non-biased reviews before I proceed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Jon
> >>>>
> >>>> Macina, Conrad wrote:
> >>>>> Hi, Kevin,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Leaving aside for at least a moment the discussion of vendors and
> >>>>> spam, I'm very interested in what you receive from your query about
> >>>>> Data Domain and possibly other dedupe vendors. I suspect other list
> >>>>> members will be as well. When you're done with your investigation, I
> >>>>> wonder if you could you please post a summary of your findings to the
> >>>>> list?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One finding I'm particularly interested in: is it properly spelled
> >>>>> "dedupe" or "dedup"? :^)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Conrad Macina
> >>>>> Pfizer, Inc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Kevin Malone [mailto:kcmalone AT SALISBURY DOT EDU]
> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:01 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Networker and Data Domain
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If there is anyone out there who is using a Data Domain dedupe
> >>>>> solution with Networker and would be willing to have a conversation
> >>>>> (good or bad) about it with me, I would be appreciative.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We are looking at dedupe solutions and I am not endorsing any at this
> >>>>> point, but that is one that we have come across.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You can send me a private e-mail so as not to clog up the listserv.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Kevin
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kevin Malone
> >>>>> Network Administrator
> >>>>> Salisbury University
> >>>>> Information Technology FH297
> >>>>> kcmalone AT salisbury DOT edu
> >>>>> 410-543-6298
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To sign off this list, send email to listserv AT listserv.temple DOT
> >>>>> edu and
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> >>>>>
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> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> - _____/ _____/ / - Jonathan Loran - -
> >> - / / / IT Manager -
> >> - _____ / _____ / / Space Sciences Laboratory, UC Berkeley
> >> - / / / (510) 643-5146 jloran AT ssl.berkeley DOT
> >> edu
> >> - ______/ ______/ ______/ AST:7731^29u18e3
> >
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