In regard to: Re: [Networker] Moving away from Networker, Albert Eddie...:
Let me preface this with I only have 1 year under my EMC/Networker belt.
NETWORKER BACK BURNER?
Um I have only been working with Networker for a year. Started with
7.2.1 and was offered 7.2.2 but elected to wait for 7.3.1... I would
consider 7.3.1 a major release and different enough to warrant an 8.0
designation. That is a marketing thing not a technical thing though. By
making 7.3.x designator they have drawn a line in the sand and said
7.2.x will be the last of that type of program. Kudos to EMC for making
the decision.
I was told by EMC executives that the only reason that 7.3 wasn't called
7.5 or 8.0 is that they had already put out a product roadmap that some of
their VARs and perhaps largest customers had seen that indicated that
certain large features (I have no idea what, and I didn't care to ask)
would be in 8.0. In other words, 8.0 was spoken for, so they couldn't
name the release that became 7.3 an 8.0 release, even though it would
have gotten that bump under other circumstances.
Support
I have to tell you I can't agree with you on support.
I have to say I agree 100% with Dave, both on the support and on the other
issues he raised. He summarized my feelings and thoughts better than I
could have (way to go Dave!). The only thing that was wrong with his list
(from my perspective) is that it wasn't long enough. ;-) We have at
least two other huge (for us, but admittedly not for all sites) gripes
with the product that weren't on his list, but I agree with everything
that was on his list. Everything.
(reference my time
working with Networker compared to yours)
Exactly. You understand that you're still hitting the early issues
and roadblocks, that support does a good job on. Once those no longer
trip you up and you start asking support the "hard" questions, your
feelings might change.
I'm not saying we *always* get terrible support. I'm saying that we
sometimes, perhaps even often, get support that's "less than satisfying".
I have found the support staff
to be extremely knowledgeable. My biggest complaint (never really
complained about it) is also a compliment. There have been a number of
times when I called for an area expert (Exchange/Oracle/SQL) and that
person was off in training. Your premium funding at work, they train
their people continuously. Which I like. I have not had a question go
unanswered. Heck when I squealed about not being able to get a hold of
the product developer The product manager contacted me personally. If
that is not a responsive company I don't know what is.
One thing I *do* like about support these days is that when a frontline
support person sends you email, their signature generally includes the
email addresses for one or more of their management staff. It's like
including a comment card with your check at a restaurant -- it's easy to
provide feedback, and it really does show that they care.
And I have no doubts that they care about providing good support. They're
trying, and I appreciate that. However, as the person that's responsible
for a mission critical enterprise application like NetWorker, I'm afraid I
sometimes have to do my Yoda impression and say that "try" doesn't cut it.
Sale of Legato to EMC
Was the sale of Legato to EMC a mistake? Are you kidding me? EMC aka
Deep Pockets, top shelf quality solutions buying Legato, how could that
be anything but a great thing for anyone using Legato products? It may
take them a while to assimilate every nuance and process but I believe
that was a great thing for legato product users.
Cost for Support... You get what you pay for. 24/7 support, some need it
some don't. I believe we are paying 9-5 support right now. How could you
pay $35k a year for support and have any kind of problem what so ever?
That's a darn good question, but yet it's the same situation for us. We
have fewer clients than Dave but probably more clientpacks and add-ons,
because even with the Edu discount that we too get, our renewals have
also become very expensive. Our last renewal price was in the low 30K
range.
Yet our experience with support mirrors his, pretty much exactly.
To keep things positive though: My experience with renewals was, for
years, exactly the same as Dave's, but our last renewal was much better.
For the three years prior to 2005, I never got a renewal reminder, and
for each of those years, support lapsed and we quit getting the quarterly
subscriptions. It got to the point that I would mark it on my calendar
and I literally had to call Legato and pester them for a quote so I could
renew support and subscription. We renew in May, and in 2004 I didn't
remember to call them until mid-June, and when I did remember and tried
to renew, it took weeks to get a quote. We had issues we needed to talk
to support about too, so we were held up for a few days waiting for them
to do a "support blast" so that I could call support.
This last renewal was much, much better though (way to go Diane!). Diane
from EMC started calling us several weeks before our renewal
anniversary, and when our accounting was a little slow she contacted me
several times to see what the status was. That's the kind of experience
I want with a renewal, but it's the first and only time I've had that
experience with EMC/Legato. I'm hoping it continues.
I
would think whomever you paid for that support contract would be kissing
your proverbial RAM chips to ensure you are happy. Residual income...
KNOW IT.
You would think, but that's just not the case.
THIS LIST
I prefer this list to be outside of EMC. A lot of manufactures and even
Microsoft has internal Blogs or chat boards.
I've noticed that EMC has started forums for their products, including
one for NetWorker. I suppose I could frequent both, but this list is
where it's at, as far as I'm concerned.
This list works well for
me. Less politics more scoop. EMC does support this list indirectly by
having moles errr employees on the list reading and learning from us as
well. If the person sending a problem to the list has a support
contract, I could imagine the team he is assigned to hearing of the
problem and him receiving an unprompted reply.
You might imagine that, but in 10 years with the product, that's never
once been my experience. Hope springs eternal, though. ;-)
But you always have to
factor in the ATTORNEYS to any good intention. Every contact an EMC
employee has with a client is "exposure" according to an attorney. Which
is why attorneys would tell you if they don't ask, you don't tell. Your
exposure clock doesn't tick until they talk to you directly. It is an
ugly legal world we live in.
You make a good point. I also understand that the support staff that
does pay attention to this list is probably overworked and possibly even
underpaid, so even the ones that would otherwise be proactive about
helping customers just can't afford to go looking for work.
It would be nice if EMC had a few knowledgeable support staff that were
given carte blanche to "patrol" this list and at least *acknowledge* bugs
that people mention on the list.
I really have to say that I'm 100% on board with what Dave originally
wrote. We had a pretty serious issue with NetWorker last year, and it
was nearly the straw that broke the camel's back for management at my
site. I've got 10 years invested in NetWorker, so I lobbied for sticking
with the product, but sometimes I wonder if that was the right move. If
it wasn't so darn painful to do an RFP and switch to something else, we
might have already done so. Who knows, maybe next year I'll be joining
Dave on the TSM list. ;-)
Still, I really do think that NetWorker was far and away the best product
in its class when we started with it, and I think there are areas where
it's still the best. I honestly hope that EMC's stewardship of the
product can return it to being the king of the enterprise backup/restore
products. Some days it just seems to be extra hard to keep that hope
going.
Tim
--
Tim Mooney mooney AT dogbert.cc.ndsu.NoDak DOT edu
Information Technology Services (701) 231-1076 (Voice)
Room 242-J6, IACC Building (701) 231-8541 (Fax)
North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 58105-5164
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