Networker

Re: [Networker] Veritas vs Networker

2004-06-21 09:13:14
Subject: Re: [Networker] Veritas vs Networker
From: "Lenderman, Mark E WRAMC WASH DC" <Mark.Lenderman AT NA.AMEDD.ARMY DOT MIL>
To: NETWORKER AT LISTMAIL.TEMPLE DOT EDU
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:11:46 -0400
Hey Sumash,   

I'm a Networker user and have just finished reading thru your response to this 
guy. Shwew is right. Good info though. Something particularly peeked my 
interest and I thought I'd see what more you may know about DiskXtender.

DiskXtender UNIX integrates with NW.  What exactly does this statement mean? Is 
it a cheaper add-on if I'm already running Networker? Do other Nearline 
solutions not allow Networker to backup the data or what? 

Thanks, Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Legato NetWorker discussion [mailto:NETWORKER AT LISTMAIL.TEMPLE DOT EDU]
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 4:54 PM
To: NETWORKER AT LISTMAIL.TEMPLE DOT EDU
Subject: Re: [Networker] Veritas vs Networker


Hi Rahul,

I have personally worked with both products at resellers. So here is my
thoughts and opinions on both products.

Firstly, this happens to be a Networker Mailing list so your greeting below
should have been changed from when you sent this reuqest to the Veritas-bu
mailing list :-) """> Hello Veritas Gurus ,"""

Legato follows a similar principle to Veritas when it comes to purchasing
back competitive software. Contact your local Legato sales person to find
out about the Trade-In program. You will receove a competitive buy-back.
Secondly, since you already have Legato NetWorker, you can configure all
your backups through this existing data zone rather than buying further
backup server (master server) licenses. You can add storage nodes sure, but
may not need to buy new server licenses.

As far as Veritas market share, this is debatable. Sure, they have majority
of the backup market space, but these figures include BackupExec. When you
look at true Enterprise or Larger environments, Legato stands out there.
Also note, that the transition (while Veritas says is easy) from BackupExec
to NetBackup is not so seamless. You have the benefit here that you already
know Legato, and have probably acquired some good skills. Try learning NBU
and the paradigm is completely different.

>From your points below, the ability to recover from one client to another
within Networker is call directed recovery. NBU has the same feature so the
choice is yours. With NW7> you will be able to browse UNIX client file
indexes from a windows system and send the data to another UNIX system.
Previous versions of NW only allowed this via the CLI.

Pushing client software within NBU while it seems great, results in more
priblems that advantages. Trust me I have had my fair share. With NW you can
push using SMS or configure it for unattended installs as well. Next release
of netWorker will allow pushing to clients. One disadvantage with NBU is
that when you make Storage Unit changes, you need to stop and restart NBU
services, bummer!! What about the policies or classes? You cannot have
policies having Windows and UNIX clients. your policies need to be of a
certain type. In NW you can have one group, with Exchange backups, SQL
backups, Fiel backups etc, whereas with NBU you have to configure each type
(SQL, Exch, or file) as separate policies. Your backup retention is volumes
based. So good bye to browse and retention. This means that if you are
ordered to (by company policies) to keep data for years, your catalog will
surely grow>>>>>

DR situations put both vendors in the same situation. Although, here NW can
be recovered to a DR server with a different name and will be supported. Not
with NBU I'm afriad. With NW, you just need the bootstrap and you will be
ready to recover savesets. In a DR, you want savesets backup. If in a DR you
are prepared to select individual files, then you have missed the purpose of
the DR process. NBU has the same issues. No catalog, no restore.

Now that Legato is a software division of EMC, you will see preferrential
qualification of support on the new EMC kit. That said, since this
annoucement, NetApp and Veritas have announced that they will develop
jointly. Seems ironic since legato/Netapp co-developed NDMP, something
Veritas could never claim to be at the forefront off. Alas, EMC has a vast
array of NDMP based NAS appliances as well, so forth with NDMP development.

Tech support: Contentious issue here. Veritas will claim that their software
is sold with support and Legato is not. Well, as an add on cost option you
can get the support. Legato claim a 92% customer satisfaction rating. This
is largely due to the knowledgebase whcih customers on support get access
to. Veritas has a similar, but free version. ONLY updated twice a year, I
have been told!

TCO. Again contentious. Contact your local Legato sales office and they will
be able to provide you with a TCO model. After all you alreadly have Legato,
so just adding the various options will be the only cost. Also, this
software is scalable from small biz to enterprise with just licensing
changes, rather than re-installing like with BUexec and NBU.

Pplatform support. Clearly Legato supports more OS's than any other vendor.
Windows 2k3 is becoming the preffered backup server platform nowadays, so
the choioce is yours. Advisable if you have a large site, excess of 400
clients, to run it a powerfull UNIX box, but ordinarily Windows 2K3 with
decennt hardwae will do the trick.

Cloning/Vaulting? Well, both have their benefits. You should consider the
backup to disk option. Also, custom scripting will help with the process of
cloning. Your choioce here!

DiskXtender UNIX integrates with NW. Networker is only backup product that
can backup a centera for added protection. Legato, with EmailXtender,
DiskXtender, NetWorker and AAM, provides complete storage management
solutions with ILM technology builtin. Use Co-Standby Server to protect your
NetWorker Server in a HA cluster. Or replistor to replicate Windows Data to
another offsite server for off-loading backup processes. Use Networker
Management console to centrally manage multiple backup server and generate
informative reports on backup success/backup storage growth and trending.

Whew, thats enough from me.

Hope this helps you in your decision making.

Regards

Sumash





----- Original Message -----
From: "Rahul Parasnis" <rahulparasnis AT MSN DOT COM>
To: <NETWORKER AT LISTMAIL.TEMPLE DOT EDU>
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 3:04 AM
Subject: [Networker] Veritas vs Networker


> Hello Veritas Gurus ,
>
> First of all I apologize because I am sure this quiestion has been asked
> before . I am sure there are some on this list who have used Legato and
> veritas  before .
>
> We are in a process of choosing  backup  software , Veritas netbackup /
> Networker .
> ( We are using Backup Exec and Legato , we were two companies we had a
> merger and now we want to select one central backup platform .)
> I am using legato for that matter and I am very happy about it . But I
would
> like to hear from this particular mailing list about this comparison .
>
> Certainly options for are Netbackup or Legato ( not backup exec because we
> have unix ( HP/ Sun ) boxes )
>
> As far Cost is concerned , Veritas is willing sacrifice backup exec
license
> cost and will charge us discounted price for license we have for Legato .
We
> can do a Math  there to compare what legato has to offer .
>
> I have read messages from  Len Boyle  Len.Boyle AT sas DOT com Fri, 24 Jan 
> 2003
> Deb  deb AT tickleme.llnl DOT gov Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:48:02 -0800
>
> After reading on mailing list archive on veritas , the mention thread
> certainly gives nice points to some extent they are still true .
>
> But I would like to hear from you again about this comparison since a year
> and half has passed , new versions of both softwares have had changes .
EMC
> has taken over Legato .
>
> I do not want to fire up this list again .
>
> It appears to me that Veritas has more share in the market than networker
.
> I would like to the comparison based on following points .
>
> 1. Speed of backup ,
> Netowrker 10 TB / Hour , Veritas 2 TB per hour .
> 2. faster recovery .
> Same Legato is clear winner .
> 3. Ease in administration .  ( Ability to restore from one client to
another
> from single screen )
>
> Veritas looks to be much more user friendly , I have never used it but
from
> my experience from Legato , networker is not easy to recover ( You need to
> goto client to do recover , you want to restore Client A data on client B
> from one adminitration screen , I don't know if it is possible in Legato
or
> Veritas but looks to be possible in backup exec atleast .
> 4. Tracking versions .  ( Legato had issues on this )
> reveoring files with day -1 and day -2 . , this kind of operation
interface
> comparison .
> also the client software version upgrade ease , Veritas can push client
> software but for legato you need to do it manually .
> 5. backward version compatibility . ( Veritas had issues on this ) .
> 6. Modules limitations like ( With Exchange5.5  module for legato was not
> able to retrieve single Email ) or Module features ( I am interested in
> Notes , SQL 2000 , Sybase on HP , modules )
> We had issue with exchange 5.5 hence we went on to arcserver for only that
> reason .
> 7. DRC solution  ( Networker has dependancy on Index server so as
Catalogue
> server correct me if I am wrong ) ( Cold standby networker solution is
> available only on windows . )
>
> To restore client data you need networker server / catalogue server live
( I
> am not sure about netbackup ) . Where as in backup exec catalogue is
stored
> on client as well then you don't have dependancy on server if you have
> direct access to tape storage from client .
>
> 8. SAN / NAS support . ( Which software works well with netapps or EMC
> provided solutions )
> I think Legato has or will have advantage over veritas on this .
>
> 9. Technical Support
> 10 Cost comparison  . ( TCO )
> 11. Most well adopted platform for running master server / Networker
Server
> . and Reasons for it .
> Both sales said unix version is more stable , but now a days win2003
server
> is becoming more stable .
> I know lot of people say Networker and veritas works well on Unix . but
the
> cost of license on unix is also high .
>
> 12. Tape cloning vs Vault
> I read some slow performance issues with vault but cloning is also not
very
> fast . Please correct me I am wrong .
>
> Any other advantages , products like Email Extender .
> Suggestions / comments / tips / jokes :)
>
>
> best regards,
> - Rahul Parasnis
>
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