I've recently been in an environment that went from very old slow low capacity 
tape to slightly faster CDL/EDL. (VTL access being the only choice in that case.)

EMC buying DD put DD on the inside track for doing proof of concepts for things 
like replacing TSM/LanFree/EDL with RMAN over NFS to DD.

This use of DD reminds me of NAS. By that I mean that instead of the TSM admin 
being on the hook for managing capacity and availability of TSM pools, whoever 
admins the DD will need to work with the DBAs to make sure they understand how 
close they are to running out of capacity at any given point. Not being able to 
set nextpool to tape may make the DD less forgiving with regards capacity 
forecasting.

It sounds like any given DD is going to be setup as one large pool. This would seem to 
put the capability for reporting who is using what back on the DBAs.(And the distinction 
of logical/physical usage sounds like a headache.) Without TSM in the picture, there is 
no "query occupancy" command to fall back on.

It is going to be interesting.

[RC]


On Aug 27, 2010, at 08:17 AM, Richard Rhodes <rrhodes AT FIRSTENERGYCORP DOT 
COM> wrote:

We don't have DD or any other dedup box . . .but we think about them a lot.

This has been one or our ongoing discussions. Our big database servers that
use rman/tdpo/lanfree.
If we could get enought throughput with straight ethernet or 10g ethernet,
then we could ditch
tdpo/lanfree and use straight rman to disk over NFS to the dedup box.
The only value in tdpo/lanfree/vtl seems to be SAN speed. I wonder what
the trade off is
between tdpo/lanfree licensing and 10g ethernet adapters and switch
ports . . . . hmmmm.

Rick






"Hart, Charles A"
<charles_hart@UHC
.COM> To
Sent by: "ADSM: ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
Dist Stor cc
Manager"
<[email protected] Subject
.EDU> Re: Data Domain: Data Domain, and
SQL-Backtrack with Sybase databases

08/27/2010 09:32
AM


Please respond to
"ADSM: Dist Stor
Manager"
<[email protected]
.EDU>






I could be shot for saying the following, but using a NFS share would
provide the opportunity for you to remove the backup application and its
associates hardware from the data protection stack altogether for things
such as data bases which in some shops is 80% of the load.

We are avid TSM users and fans but if RMAN backups directly to NFS
mounts works well it appears there would be an opportunity reducing
complexity and costs.

Charles

-----Original Message-----
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU] On Behalf Of
Nobody
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 5:18 PM
To: ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Data Domain: Data Domain, and SQL-Backtrack with
Sybase databases

The last time I checked <10% of DD customers use the VTL option. I'm
willing to bet that 60-80% of those are TSM customers. The TSM folks
I've
talked to seem to prefer using VTL over file-type devices, which may
explain that. The rest of the world (except large enterprise customers)
tends to prefer NAS devices.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 1:38 PM, ADSM-L <tsm AT networkc.co DOT uk> wrote:

> Curtis,
>
> >> Data Domain has good market share, but very few DD customers use
VTL.
>
> Really? That surprises me a little (i.e., the marginalised VTL usage)
> and isn't necessarily representative of the TSM customers I've spoken
> to or worked with using DDRs, many of whom still use the VTL
> functionality. I can't comment on whether this is so much the case
> with shops that use other backup software though (e.g., I know NBU has
its own OST interface).
>
> In any case, whether through VTL or NFS/CIFS the principle is the same

> and of course you're right, pre-appliance compression or even
> encryption can be catastrophic to data de-dupe ratios. Without knowing

> any more, it sounds like you may have to make a compromise somewhere
> without changing your current config Nancy, either in terms of backup
> data storage footprint or RPO.
>
> Cheers,
> __________________
> David McClelland
> London, UK
>
> On 26 Aug 2010, at 19:10, Nobody <wcplists1 AT GMAIL DOT COM> wrote:
>
> > Data Domain has good market share, but very few DD customers use
> > VTL.
>

This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or
proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity
to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended
recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified
that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately.



-----------------------------------------
The information contained in this message is intended only for the
personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. If
the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an
agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you
are hereby notified that you have received this document in error
and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete
the original message.