Might work...  if only I had time to work on such a thing and test it
out...  Wouldn't the 1GB files be backed up everytime, since the
timestamp will have changed?

At 07:40 PM 12/9/2007, you wrote:

Well Paul  it looks like you need a low tech solution

I assume Vista has some sort of NTBACKUP equivalent?

Run your NTBACKUP of the systemstate as a precommand and put it through the
GNU split utility to give you files of say 1GB in size. do it as a script
and add a sleep at the end to give VSS time to quiesce before the TSM
backup starts.

Exclude systemstate from the TSM backup (or maybe put it in a class with
freq of 14) , but turn on subfile backup for the split backup files.

Voila - poor man's dedup.

Regards

Steve

Steven Harris
TSM Admin - Sydney Australia






             Paul Zarnowski
             <psz1 AT CORNELL DOT EDU
             >                                                          To
             Sent by: "ADSM:           ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
             Dist Stor                                                  cc
             Manager"
             <[email protected]                                     Subject
             .EDU>                     Re: [ADSM-L] Vista oddness


             08/12/2007 10:32
             AM


             Please respond to
             "ADSM: Dist Stor
                 Manager"
             <[email protected]
                   .EDU>






Joanne,

Thanks very much for the detailed response.  We really need relief on
this.  We have a couple of thousand Windows systems, and they will
eventually be upgrading to Vista.  As they do so, they will uncover
this huge problem;  A problem for them, in that their backups will
run longer and they will be storing much more data than they need;
and also a problem for the TSM server administrators as they put an
increasingly huge load on the network and TSM server infrastructure.

This solution, as it is now, is virtually unworkable for us.  The
clock is ticking, and we need relieve ASAP.  Waiting for the next
major release is too long, IMHO.  It would have been nice if this
were addressed with the initial support for Vista in TSM, but that's
water over the dam now.

Thanks for listening.

..Paul

At 11:40 AM 12/7/2007, Joanne T Nguyen wrote:
>David,
>
>You are seeing the correct behavior.  If you have the default domain
>backup, system state will be part of the backup.  On Vista, system state
>is in GB because we're backing up the windows\winsxs and
>system32\driverstore folder.  Please see the link below where MS describes
>in-box writers.  System state consists of all the bootable system state
and
>system services writers.  Though 8GB seems high.  Our testing
>shows about 5GB.
>
>http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa819131.aspx
>
>For Windows 2003, TSM implements a way to back up the system files
>component of the system state only if something is changed.  So it
>is possible to backup only about 30-40 files the 2nd time and thereafter
if
>no fixes or SP were applied after the initial system state backup.
>During Vista development, we noticed some files were always changed so
>instead of spending the cycle to compare each file. which are
>in 30,000-40,000 files now, we decided to backup all the time.  This is
one
>area we will revisit.
>
>If you have vshadow tool from the MS VSS SDK, you can do "vshadow -wm2" to
>see all the files that should be part of the backup.  Please
>let me know if you have further questions.
>
>Regards,
>Joanne Nguyen
>TSM Client Development
>
>
>
>
>
>              "Tyree, David"
>              <david.tyree@SGMC
>              .ORG>
To
>              Sent by: "ADSM:           ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
>              Dist Stor
cc
>              Manager"
>              <[email protected]
Subject
>              .EDU>                     Re: Vista oddness
>
>
>              12/07/2007 06:47
>              AM
>
>
>              Please respond to
>              "ADSM: Dist Stor
>                  Manager"
>              <[email protected]
>                    .EDU>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I did a backup using the GUI and selected system state along with the C:
>drive. The backup was 8 gig when it finished.
>
>I went back and did a C: drive only and it was only a few hundred meg.
>Then I did a system state only and got the 8 gig again.
>
>That system state in Vista is just crazy. I need to go back and really
>look at some of my servers and see just how big the system state backups
>are. I'll also take a close look at a few Win XP Pro desktops that I'm
>backing up and see what the numbers look like.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU] On Behalf Of
>Wanda Prather
>Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 2:35 AM
>To: ADSM-L AT VM.MARIST DOT EDU
>Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Vista oddness
>
>Don't know myself, but someone else posted a while back that the System
>State on Vista is many GB.
>
>That is consistent with what you are seeing - a scheduled backup will do
>the
>System State, whether things have changed or not.  And selecting the C:
>drive will not do the system state.
>
>As a test, try your backup from thh GUI again, but this time select
>System
>STate as well as the C: drive, see if the results change...
>
>And please post back the results!
>
>
>
>On 12/6/07, Tyree, David <david.tyree AT sgmc DOT org> wrote:
> >
> >            We are testing Vista and I'm seeing something odd. TSM
>seems
> > to want to do almost a full backup every time it runs automatically.
> >
> >            I'm running the 5.5.0 client on a VMware (6.0) Vista
> > Ultimate box that is talking to a TSM server running 5.4.1 on Windows.
> >
> >            The backup on the Vista machine is automated using the
> > DSMCAD service. The incremental backup kicks off at the correct time,
> > but it ends up doing a full backup.
> >
> >            I've looked through the dsmsched log on the Vista machine
> > and I'm seeing where it has contacted the TSM server and picked up the
> > schedule name and the action. The schedule name is correct and the
> > action is set to incremental. And several lines in the dsmsched log
> > mention "Incremental backup of '\\is-vista-test-d\c$' finished".
> >
> >            The log shows everything just like what I would expect to
> > say, the issue is that it ends up backing up almost 8 gigs of files
>each
> > time the backup runs. I've run scheduled incremental backups almost
>back
> > to back on the machine and it picks up 8 gigs each time. The machine
>is
> > just sitting there between backups; I'm not doing anything on the
> > machine in between.
> >
> >            If I open the GUI and tag the c drive for incremental
>backup
> > it goes out and looks at all the files on the drive and backs up a few
> > dozen files and it done. Just like I would expect it to.
> >
> >            If I go to the baclient folder and run "dsmc incr" from the
> > command line it ends up doing what looks like a full backup.
> >
> >
> >
> >            In the last couple of hours I had a scheduled backup run
> > that moved about 8 gigs worth of files. Right after that finished I
>did
> > a c drive backup from the GUI. It moved a few hundred megs of files.
> > Right behind that I did the "dsmc incr". So far it's moved over 4 gig
>of
> > files and is still running.
> >
> >
> >
> >            Anybody got a idea what's going on here?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >            PS, Vista looks good.  Except most of our software doesn't
> > run. The UAC (User Account Control) is a real piece of work. And they
> > have moved everything around so you can't find what you're looking
>for.
> > But at least it looks good....
> >
> > David Tyree
> > Interface Analyst
> > South Georgia Medical Center
> > 229.333.1155
> >
> > Confidential Notice:  This e-mail message, including any attachments,
>is
> > for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
> > confidential and privileged information.  Any unauthorized review,
>use,
> > disclosure or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not the intended
> > recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all
> > copies of the original message.
> >
> >
> >


--
Paul Zarnowski                            Ph: 607-255-4757
Manager, Storage Services                 Fx: 607-255-8521
719 Rhodes Hall, Ithaca, NY 14853-3801    Em: psz1 AT cornell DOT edu

--
Paul Zarnowski                            Ph: 607-255-4757
Manager, Storage Services                 Fx: 607-255-8521
719 Rhodes Hall, Ithaca, NY 14853-3801    Em: psz1 AT cornell DOT edu