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  1. #73
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    Default Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid, In IBM Audit space no one can hear you scream.

    The Products you are buying are software subscription renewals and annual support agreements for software. They do NOT include an initial license entitlement.

    Basically you are paying for year 2 onwards support but that is all. The Initial entitlement is only included in the First year license. Part# D56FELL In theory you need one of these before you can renew Year 2 and beyond. And IBM or your VAR will be tracking your entitlement.

    We recalculated and paid our licenses last year and then IBM showed up with KPMG in tow this year ( We got hit for 200,000 extra PVU's because they have changed the way they evaluate VMWARE, Vmotion clusters and HA clusters, plus somone swapped licenses I was using for other entitlements. Oh and the guy who worked it out last year missed that a single core Xeon was 100PVU )

    If you didnt buy licenses D56FELL or some similar entitlement in the past. I would make sure you know exactly what you have hardware wise, work out how much you owe IBM, and then talk to your management because it sounds like you might have a large bill ahead of you. (and no you aren't a Toucan)

    SC

  2. #74
    Senior Member Jeff_Jeske's Avatar
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    Well it took a bit of digging and I even called our IBM rep but I found that we originally purchased about 1000 processor licenses back in 2006. IBM some how worked their magic during the PVU conversion and gave us enough new client PVU to support about 1000 dual core servers. The big money saver has turned out to be our P2V push.

    By moving 60% of the previous physical machines to virtual machines we have compressed nearly 40 physical machines into one VM Host license. Any new physical machines reuse one of the 39 reclaimed previously purchased new client licenses. Therefore no need to purchase new client licenses as they were previously purchase and had continuous support on them.

    In a way its quite slick. Every one of our VM clients have a baclient but we license the host not individual clients. As for VMotion, all of our VM clients are VMotion capable but since every host already has a TSM license we don't need to do anything extra!

    This has left us with many extra client licenses to reuse for new physical machines. Looking at the numbers it was cheaper to continue to pay for support on unused baclient licenses than drop support and later pay for new client licenses. We still have hundreds of free client licenses floating around.

    Jeff Jeske - Sentry Insurance Storage Engineer
    IBM Certified Advanced Deployment Professional
    SNIA Certified Storage Engineer
    EMC Proven Professional
    ITIL Certified

    Sometimes the more you know... the harder it is to make a good decision!

  3. #75
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    Default Happy for you!

    You clearly have a way better negotiators than we do. We had a 5000 CPU license and that along with all the previously purchased standalone licenses somehow got converted to into just 500PVU's more than the 2000 or so cores we had active when it was Swapped for PVUs.

    The bean counters do our negotiation direct with the IBM Software Rep and they won't allow us techies or even the VAR who originally sold us the licenses into the negotiations. This means our management never even have a clue what they gave away. But the negotiators do protect their little empire so its all cool with their mgt.

    SC.

  4. #76
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    Even I have seen TSM projects/servers moving to netbackup,HPDP etc due to cost...

    Management mind easily alters with $$$$$$
    I strongly think that IBM should reconsider their pricing.........otherwise TSM market share will sink for sure
    *Everybody loves TSM (if understood )
    Sandeep

  5. #77
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    I thought some of you who contributed to this thread might find a follow-up interesting. We're still a TSM shop here, but maybe not for long. We recently dropped Domino and migrated to Exchange and are dropping Websphere soon. Shortly after we renewed with these changes, IBM initiated an audit. Coincidence? I don't think so.

    So the auditors (who obviously had very little technical understanding of infrastructure in general) wasted a bunch of our time asking irrelevant and/or repetitive questions and having us fill out what may have been the most convoluted spreadsheet I've ever seen, they ran off to write their report. A couple months later, they come back showing we are WAY out of compliance.

    So I go through the audit and realize (similar to shcart) that the inflated numbers are from them not properly following sub-capacity licensing rules. We're currently waiting for a response after pointing that out. If it's anything other than "our bad, sorry for wasting your valuable time", I think we'll be taking a VERY strong look at moving away from our remaining IBM products (TSM, Cognos - don't even get me started on this debacle -, etc).

    As a comparison - we just looked at true-ing up our Microsoft licensing, which offers either per-socket/CPU or Server+CAL models. We were able to do the audit and make a clear-cut decision in about, oh, 2 hours. Microsoft are no angels themselves, but at this point I'd much rather be doing business with them than IBM and, more importantly, so would my superiors.

    IBM - if you're reading this, get your sh*t together.

    Oh, almost forgot - I noticed, as was mentioned above, the new PVU charts where you actually end up paying more to backup a server with 4 sockets than 2, even if only 1-2 sockets are populated. W. T. F.

  6. #78
    Senior Member Jeff_Jeske's Avatar
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    Even if it costs more.... TSM works and that is my number one concern. I have never worked with another product as powerful and relieable as TSM. It is my feeling that our TSM agents give every server a individual health check every day. I love TSM!

    I would go to war with managment if they even suggested we move away from TSM.

    Jeff Jeske - Sentry Insurance Storage Engineer
    IBM Certified Advanced Deployment Professional
    SNIA Certified Storage Engineer
    EMC Proven Professional
    ITIL Certified

    Sometimes the more you know... the harder it is to make a good decision!

  7. #79
    Member sandeepkontham's Avatar
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    I Totally Agree, TSM is the best backup enterprise s/w in the market but if IBM can reduce licensing price then for sure there will be only one backup s/w in market i.e. TSM
    *Everybody loves TSM (if understood )
    Sandeep

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    OK so the concensus is TSM is the best product in the enterprise space, however IBM are pricing it out of the market. What are our alternatives ? I have a number of customers now reviewing multiple backup solutions, VEEAM for the VM's, Netbackup for the satellites and primative point solutions for DBMs' which of course are not even close to a TSM type solution but they are hundreds of thousands of dollars cheaper( quote this week for 1 tsmee client and 1 Oracle TDP to run in one container on a SUN m5000 was $82k per annum, another who have had TSM since ADSM who's first license was $23k this years bill -- still being argued was over $250k...WTF). Are other TSM sites finding affordable alternatives or some method of counting the PVU's that make it cost justifiable to keep it?. I see my next couple of contracts being migrations off TSM simply because the a business case cannot be made to continue using it.

  9. #81
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    Just thought I would bring this back from the dead. Last year we moved to the TB of primary storage licensing approach. We are currently at 400TB of primary storage. Did the easy math and that came up to about $3200 per TB of TSM primary storage. That's more than we are paying for the disk that it sits on.

    After reporting this up the food chain people are really scrambling.... The number crunchers are saying that is way high! But its high compared to what? Does anyone know what the other top three solutions cost?

  10. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilution View Post
    Just thought I would bring this back from the dead. Last year we moved to the TB of primary storage licensing approach. We are currently at 400TB of primary storage.
    For my interest sake, what was cheaper:
    - PVU licensing
    - SUR (per TB) licensing

    Cheers

  11. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad_small View Post
    What's up with IBM license pricing being insanely high? I know for us it doesn't help when the Netbackup reps are willing to give their product away (free Crap is still Crap!). I've heard of numerous HUGE accounts looking into Netbackup, and with Symantec basically giving it away, how do you stop management from considering it? With IBM's pricing out of control it doesn't help. I sure hope IBM reconsiders their pricing...it's forcing people off of TSM.
    Look into the Unified Recovery cost model if you haven't already. We saw significant savings.

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